Tandem Share Discussion Threads

[arthur_lame_stocks] 11/4/2018 21:21

Did you know one of their pension funds is called the casket group pension fund.

As if you want to be reminded when you're getting on a bit.

[castleford tiger] 11/4/2018 19:57

Well I got my numbers close. Even called for a revaluation and got it.
EPS was slightly higher ( not complaining) and cash an added bonus.
Now we have finished paying for the building I can see this year being better.
140p looksvery mean just 4 x earnings!!
I think 8x is fair.
I await the full report
Cannot do AGM as away but need to chew the numbers more as it looks very good. Any trades today?
Tiger

[graham1ty] 11/4/2018 13:47

Well, you did well at 65p. It has not been below 70p since 2009, so you certainly are a long term holder

[amt] 11/4/2018 10:16

I bought at 65p according to my records. Might be mistaken. Anyway even at 1 quid its now 30% higher plus dividends better than many FTSE 100 countries where the index is barely above where it was in 1999.
Its not a ZOO 1.000 % gain in a year admittedly (or a D4T4 shameless plug☺) but its a longterm investment in a very difficult sector. See what happened to Toysrus

Anyway it looks like it is undervalued. 11m net assets and property alone over 3m vs market cap of 6.5m
If a pe of ten were put on it the share price would be 3.50 so I think we can be happy with that.

[graham1ty] 11/4/2018 09:31

Amt, ten years ago the price was 101p. If you had bought below 100p in c 2014, and sold into the rise in 2016, you might have doubled your money.....but that is only “low to high”. Any other holding period over the last ten years has brought virtually nothing.

I held from about 2000-2010, waiting for “a doubling over ten years”. It did not happen. Good luck now

[amt] 11/4/2018 08:44

I am very happy with doubling my money over ten years plus very healthy income. Credit where credit is due.

[amt] 11/4/2018 08:33

Graham I have followed for more than 10 years. There have been ups and downs but compared with most AIM companies it is doing well. Its a longterm story thats now looking very positive. It seems to me management are very proactive and have some excellent products particularly toys but all sectors look good.

[my retirement fund] 11/4/2018 08:09

Perhaps ant may wish to give them a pay rise?

[graham1ty] 11/4/2018 07:48

Amt, if you had followed this for 10-15 years, you would know what I meant.......

[amt] 11/4/2018 07:39

What do you mean "despite management" These are good results in tough markets where the economy is in a difficult post Brexit period including a significant fall in the pound although it has started to recover a little. Seems to me management have done a good job pulling off these results and put the company in a good position. They seem to be very proactive.

[graham1ty] 11/4/2018 07:23

Tiger, those results look pretty good ( bonuses all round). The underlying cash and asset backing is now substantial. That should reset the share price to a new base level.

However, as always, they are cautious about this year.

Your patience should be rewarded, despite management !

[castleford tiger] 06/3/2018 16:07

didn't bother todays buyers and pushed price up

tiger

[castleford tiger] 05/3/2018 13:13

davidosh

No I don't think he does.
He and I were the only two at the last AGM.
GRAHAM

I agree with you paid far too much and not enough based/aligned to improving shareholder value.

AMT
Remember this debt came about buying the last two companies and the building.
Less than a years profit is not highly geared.
You will never get a fair valuation on these and 15x I cannot see happening.
Just been quoted 2500 shares at 1.25 sell 10000 at 1.125.

Looking to buy but that's a crazy spread. If I started selling it would be a pound in no time
Tiger

[graham1ty] 04/3/2018 07:52

Until the Board is changed, nothing will happen. Over the last ten years, the total remuneration of Mervyn ( non Exec Chairman since 2011) has been £1.18m and Steve Grant has been paid over £2,000,000, yes, repeat that £2.0m yes, million.

Mervyn has been there 29 years. Steve joined MV 28 years ago.

And in that period, they have built the Company up to £5.5m......er, surely some mistake. Surely it must be bigger than that ? Surely ? Er, NO, NO, NO.

But they obviously. Think it is cheap and have been buying up every share they can ? Well, no actually. Mervyn, after 29 years, has built up a stake of 221,000. Steve, has £250,000 worth

So, are shareholders and Directors interests aligned ?? Steve got a divi of £9000 and a salary of £231,000. I think I know which is more important to him......

[davidosh] 04/3/2018 01:23

Does Simon Bragg read these boards ? Has he been to the last two Agms as I have missed them ?

I think Tandem should do a presentation to investors and where better than the Mello2018 event in Derby ?

[amt] 03/3/2018 21:03

I would much rather take a prudent view. Once all the debt has been cleared the company will have been derisked and the share price might then be on a fairer pe of say 15 which will give shareholders a much better return than increasing dividends.

[amt] 03/3/2018 16:34

Tiger I excluded the intangible assets in my calculations.
I dont think they should pay out too much in dividends its already high yielding.
They need to pay off debt and the pension liability and build up say 3 or 4m of cash first in case there is a recession. No sign of a recession yet but if Brexit goes wrong there could be 2 or 3 very tough years ahead.

[castleford tiger] 03/3/2018 13:45

They had over 6m of debt so if they have just 10% of the shares they would need 9m

Asset backing of about 9 m and a few PG even a stake with the bank should be enough.
9 million is only about 6 years profits possibly even less if Directors took a cut for a couple of years...........they could own it all debt free in 4 years.

That's paying 10m for it.

What's to stop a PE house stepping in and giving management 25% ?

Tiger

[graham1ty] 03/3/2018 10:52

Tiger, the Board do not have a big enough holding to get a buy out off the ground. And they would never be able to raise the finance p.a.

I did worry in the past that their whinging about the cost of listing would lead to them proposing delisting. Price would drop to 50p......and then they could afford it........

[castleford tiger] 03/3/2018 09:46

Not sure why they don't buy us all out and take it private?
If they paid double current price 2.00 a share its under 10m. ( of course we know its worth more) 300p would be fairer.

For a company making 1 to 2 million with assets of 8 million possibly 10 this year its a no brainer.
Maybe no debt has gone it may be on their agenda

tiger

[graham1ty] 03/3/2018 08:48

Tiger, amt there IS a high payout ratio.....the trouble is it in Directors salaries. No wonder they are not accumulating assets and growing. It is all going out of the door to the Board.

Total remuneration for the last few years:
2016 was £689,000
2015 was £665,000
2014 was £820,000 ( three Directors got over £200,000)
2013 was £566,000

That is over half the market cap paid out in four years. Or last year alone 13% of the market cap paid out !!!!!!!!

This compares to the dividend cost of £185,000 last year and £171,000 the year before. So, Directors get almost FOUR times the payout to shareholders.

Operating profit in the last four years has been pretty steady between £972,000 and £1.5m. That means the Board is getting between 50-70% of Operating Profit.

Until the Board excess is challenged and changed, this will remain a gravy train for the Board. The share price is roughly the same level as it was 15 years ago. Why do the Board get paid up to £820,000 for that ???????

[castleford tiger] 03/3/2018 07:51

amt

I THINK you will find at last year end Net assets were well over 8 million so expected to be close to 10m now.
That's double the market cap of 5m
Furthermore they are real as the building will be 3m of that 10 figure.
I certainly think there will be no chargeable debt by end of this year and from 5 m a couple of years ago.
That saves 150/200k a year in interest and from this year there is 250k a month that we were paying for the building. That's 400k plus a year.

Not sure what the plan is with all this cash as the dividend has only grown slowly in the last 5 years.
Maybe a special dividend as the Directors hold a few shares.

The biggest problem with TND is the lack of market in the shares.
The day you buy you lose 10% so why bother?

Now if the company agreed to pay out 1/3rd of its earnings the shares could be bought for income.
42k shares traded on the update and non yesterday.

There is just not a market ( due to poor MM and lack of data from the company)

Tiger

[amt] 03/3/2018 07:08

Another year like this one (assuming 1.5m profit) and should be debt free. Another couple of years and net assets should be in excess of current market cap so market is pricing the Company extraordinarily low.

[castleford tiger] 02/3/2018 18:23

Acquisition of freehold property

In February 2013 we completed the acquisition of the freehold on our property in Castle Bromwich, Birmingham for cash consideration (before expenses) of GBP2,600,000.

The Consideration was satisfied by means of a new 5 year term loan of GBP1,610,000 provided by the Company's bankers and the balance from existing cash resources. Following the acquisition, we expect to save approximately GBP300,000 per annum net of interest payments.

HALF THE MARKET CAP......... finished paying in FEBRUARY 2018

Tiger

[castleford tiger] 02/3/2018 18:19

we got 1.30 from 1.25 at half time and 2.5 last year end so my guess is
2.7p final giving 4%.

No market in the shares so I don't know how we get value there unless a bidder comes along.
On fundamental's they are worth 250-300p as I expect 30p eps.

Well asset backed -----the warehouse cost a few bob and that's paid for now.

Tiger