Stanley Gibbons Share Discussion Threads

[jasdan] 18/12/2019 17:01

Also, recent win by the Conservatives must be a boost to SGI. Many people may have put off a decent purchase fearing what could have happened if Corbyn had got in. I imagine SGI are now experiencing a very decent Xmas trading period as a result as uncertainty is lifted, and people now know what they can spend.

[wapit] 18/12/2019 16:56

Yep, Good to see.

[fund1] 18/12/2019 16:04

Slow steady climb throughout the day. Unusual for this. Thought it was on life support.

[superiorshares] 16/12/2019 07:39

gbh2- not trying to convince any one of anything. They are just the facts of the matter. Its not opinion . Regards

[gbh2] 16/12/2019 07:17

All stock market investments carry risk & SGI is currently no more than a punt, you pays your money and takes your chance, trying to convince other's that you're right or wrong is futile imo.

[superiorshares] 16/12/2019 02:30

2023/ or the next 12 months ?. They will be unable to pay it back, as they are loss making. However they could report s 5 million pound a year profit for the next 3 years, in which case, loan sorted !

[jasdan] 14/12/2019 06:22

Incorrect Augustus, they have until 2023 to pay off the debt - per the RNS

[augustusgloop] 04/12/2019 23:22

According to the interim results - SGI have to repay £12.842 million of borrowings within the next 12 months.

Pheonix are in complete control.

What do you do if they demand repayment?

They could get 100% of the company in return for writing off the loan!

[superiorshares] 04/12/2019 21:04

Augustusgloop. It's why Financiers at the time described it as s very complicated arrangement.

[jasdan] 04/12/2019 15:48

There’s no point to Phoenix not rolling it over as they are the company banker and main shareholders

[jasdan] 04/12/2019 15:47

Sikh, this was raised at the AGM. The impression was given that it would be rolled over in 2023 as in essence Phoenix were acting as bankers to SG. At this stage of the recovery cycle, it was felt that there was a need to invest in the business and that this was preferable to paying off debt. Phoenix have agreed to provide further funding if necessary, but the key thing now is to increase the turnover as profit will then flow, especially as SG’s margins are around 45%. The recent update confirms that they are now successfully increasing the turnover

[sikhthetech] 04/12/2019 13:37

Jasdan,

"They have already stated publicly that they are long term supporting of SG so why should this change?"

However, there is still a £12.8m loan payable in just over 3 yrs time. Phoenix are supporting the business but they's not doing it as a charity. They've loaned the company some money and expect to get it back.
How do you think they will repay that loan over the next 3 yrs?


The business looks like it's improving at last, so I'm thinking about taking a punt but the loan is a concern.



"As at the balance sheet date the Group had cash balances of GBP2.3m and a loan of GBP12.8m repayable in March 2023, provided there is no event of default in the meantime. This loan is due to Phoenix S. G. Limited, the Group's controlling shareholder."

[jasdan] 04/12/2019 08:46

What interests me is that the deal cost Phoenix £19.45m so in simple terms that is what it has cost them to obtain a 58% stake

[jasdan] 04/12/2019 08:44

The debt was reduced from around £18m owed to RBS to £10m owed to Phoenix. At the same time £6.2m of new shares were created for Phoenix giving them a 58% shareholding. That’s exactly a D4E deal.

[augustusgloop] 04/12/2019 08:15

It wasn't debt for equity - otherwise the debt wouldn't be there anymore!

They issued the equity - but the debt is still there.

Anybody who thinks that Pheonix paid the banks £10m for £10m of distressed debt is purely delusional.

The whole thing was structured in a way that listed the shares as being bought at a certain price - when many other interpretations were possible.

An alternative attribution of what Pheonix paid - was full price for the debt and the shares for 0p.

[jasdan] 04/12/2019 07:59

I think most investors would agree that the write down of the former RBS debt and its replacement with Phoenix’s newly issued equity stake was exactly a D4E deal of the sort that Clive Whiley specialised in. That of course is why he was on the Board back then

[ragewarrior] 04/12/2019 07:34

J, there's no rush, will monitor & maybe in a couple of weeks will get the other 50,000 I want :-)

[jasdan] 03/12/2019 22:36

Superior, you clearly did not understand what happened 20 months ago. I’d stick to loading the toilet roll packs on the shelves at Morrisons’s. Hopefully you cannot get that wrong as well

[superiorshares] 03/12/2019 20:58

And Jasdan. 20 months ago it wasnt a debt for equity swap. The debt was purchased from the bank for a song. A majority of shares were issued as a freebie,basically. There was no swap the debt is still their in addition to millions of extra shares. Sikh there can't be a debt for equity swap, it would have to be at about 1p. Phoenix would issue about a billion shares mainly back to themselves. All they would achieve is a huge financing fee for no reason.

[jasdan] 02/12/2019 21:50

Sikh,there’s already been a D4E swap twenty months ago when Phoenix swapped £19.45m for a 58% share of this business. They have already stated publicly that they are long term supporting of SG so why should this change? It’s just about to come good for everyone, it seems to me, so I cannot see why their policy should change now

[sikhthetech] 02/12/2019 21:30

The results were an improvement on last year, so they are heading in the right direction... The turnaround signs are still there..

There is a long way to go though...
I think there is a high risk that there maybe a D4E swap - they still have a hefty loan...

risk/reward moving more to reward's favour...

[jasdan] 02/12/2019 20:39

Get a grip Superior, MRW low is around 176p over last five years; it’s never fallen to 140p

You just make yourself sound ridiculous with these comments. As I say, just go back to Morrisons’s and get on with pushing those trolleys