Scancell Share Discussion Threads

[oldnotwise] 11/1/2022 08:00

20.66/20.94

[inanaco] 11/1/2022 07:40

you only have to watch the BBC

nothing more important than "Parties" and "Jokavich"

wall to wall 24hrs ...

or

you can read Tf ... a 3 monthly repeat .. with the same conclusion

Boredom and Filters

I am filtered ... LOL

[torquayfan] 11/1/2022 03:49

EE - Japan gives a fair comparison, having almost twice the UK's population at a higher density of 334 per km2, (UK 270 km2), and a very close GDP per head and 1/15th of the UK's dpm.

Generally, you mention a variety of potential factors affecting 'dpm' - perhaps some are relevant but it would be wrong to conclude that these factors exacerbate but never work the other way in these comparisons.

My original thought, (no hindsights), that Govt's. policies re. border controls, mask wearing and the closure of superspreader events, might be the main reason for Nations having such dramatically different dpm records, might actually hold some water. I agree that 'recording' differences will in some cases be significant.

That said, just for fun, here's some more - the UK dpm is worse than New Zealand's x 219, Australia x 26, Japan x15, Thailand x7 etc.

At the height of the early pandemic in New York, at least 10 flights a day were landing at LHR alone, whilst our PM was busy shaking hands and discounting the use of face masks, which were not then required, even on public transport.

IMHO we did badly and there's nothing to be gained from hiding from the fact. The UK's dpm is admittedly in the same range as many other European Countries - I don't see that as a point - had we done some things differently, might we not have done better ? What would have been wrong with that ?

Last on this but ATB

[panama7] 11/1/2022 01:21

EE, so the PCR will still be used for sequencing variants. In the last 2 years have you actually bothered to listen to the inventor Kary Mullis, obviously not. The CDC has stated that the PCR cannot distinguish between Covid and Influenza and you believe it can distinguish between variants, really ?

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 16:42

No. I'm implying a lingering question of potential dishonesty in that particular case. We may hear more tomorrow?The main defect of PCR tests is false positives relating to dead virus, plus the delay in getting results (which covers about 25% of the likely infective period). For the purpose of prompt warnings about infectivity, LFT are better; but PCRs will still be used for sequencing if new variants emerge.Cheerio.

[panama7] 10/1/2022 14:03

EE, I hope you are not implying that the PCR is not accurate. Hold on a sec isn't it the PCR that has been used to justify number of cases and deaths that have led to lockdowns and a destruction of the economy.

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 13:48

16th December PCR, apparently.....I obviously knew some fatter Japanese than you ;-) But there are certainly a whole raft of lifestyle and genetic differences between UK and Japan. Clearly it is wrong to merely assume (as some seem to want) that if we'd only done exactly what Japan did we'd have had the same outcomeBack on topic, the BBC T-cells article I referenced earlier has just been the subject of an extended piece on BBC news.....bit of a PR opportunity, I'd think.Apparently the UK Government is likely to have "a plan" for moving forward by March....which I'd think means dropping masks and other restrictions and (hopefully) backing/testing better vaccines. Timing-wise, Covidity really should be "in the mix"?

[geckotheglorious] 10/1/2022 13:23

EE,

Oh did Djockovic test positive recently? Missed that. Can't say I follow tennis celebs anymore than other celbs to be honest.

Re Japan.
No it was a genuine question.
Have visited Tokyo many a time (in 90's/Noughties) so like yourself am well aware of their "mask wearing/and personal discipline" the moment the sniffles break out.

My recollection of Japan, outside the Sumo wrestlers was an absence of obesity - japanese tend to be skinny as!

They have healthier diets as well.

Genuinely intrigued as to why their old population has fared so well.

:)

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 12:12

VERY interesting study reported here today. Note in particular the final line talking up the advantages of vaccines that harness T-cells!!BBC News - Covid-19: Common cold may give some protection, study suggestshttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59911257

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 11:53

Re Japan, I suspect much of the answer would be "mask-wearing and social distancing" ....and locking down hard (a friend's son in Tokyo has been locked down for long periods)....but I'm not sure you'd want to hear that? ;-)I was amazed when visiting Tokyo in the 80s and 90s to see so many mask-wearers. No pandemic in sight then.

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 11:48

I didn't say it was HIS scam.....but someone is scamming someone. It may be him, it may not....but somone has misrepresented things and conned someone. Bit early to say who though!!Personally, I'd say it was unbelievably convenient to test positive "just in time" to tick Tennis Australia's boxes...but we'll see.

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 09:00

The Germans also have a decentralised healthcare system run by the states - so have eg many more hospital beds, completely different procurement practices, a fundamentally different testing system and capacity etc. That led to big early PR wins but has been more difficult recently. I think Johnson/Whitty have been great throughout - very early to honestly warn about many older people dying earlier than they might have expected and, importantly, to point out early on that "it ain't over until its over".....which is why the inquiry will be later this year (at which point China will be in dire straits, it seems).

[stepone68] 10/1/2022 08:44

Hi TF,

So, my views on the difference between Germany and us is that Germans probably stick to the rules better, and had better health, weight and longevity stats than us before the pandemic (as do most EU countries), hence the better stats now.

StepOne

[wigwammer] 10/1/2022 08:28

Finding the solution to a large and complex problem will inevitably result in mistakes and imperfections. The only people who think otherwise and brazenly point the finger are those who do not understand this, because they have never been trusted with a large and complex responsibility in their lives. The reason they are here in fact, is precisely due to the resentment they feel about this rejection. Try and have pity.

[oldnotwise] 10/1/2022 08:02

20.385/20.8

[emptyend] 10/1/2022 07:36

Not sure how "rambling" applies to an 8 line response...... especially when your latest is 11........And, re stepone's point, Japan's societal preparedness was much better due to recent scares over SARS/MERS. Basically outside of Asia it has been a similar story across the board....some things done better, some worse, with outcomes often dependent on systems laid down decades previously, and heavily impacted by the level of global connectedness of each society.

[torquayfan] 09/1/2022 23:50

Stepone

Re. Japan - "Japan 146 dpm, another populous industrial Nation with high density areas."

Re. Germany, 1363 dpm - (62% of the UK dpm)

The UK had weeks to watch Covid emerge in Italy and were very slow to act. Also the UK was at the front of the vaccines drive.

Yet 2193 dpm. Something else was wrong IMHO.

Last post - the weekend's over. ATB

[stepone68] 09/1/2022 23:27

Why pick UK and Japan? It doesn't matter what the gov might have done differently - we were never going to get down to Japan's level. Most of Europe have similar rates to us - even Germany, and on dpm we are somewhere around 30th globally which, in terms of countries that matter, is mid-table. I remember hearing on Radio 4 in the first Summer of lockdown that Spain didn't count a death as Covid unless it was registered within 24 hours of death. Don't know if that has changed, but it makes me take all these numbers with a pinch of salt large enough that I think the Boris effect is over-stated.

StepOne

[torquayfan] 09/1/2022 22:28

Yes EE and I hope you had a Happy Sunday too and btw, you may be surprised to learn I frequently vote Tory myself - I assess it at each election based on what I see.

Sorry 'hysterical' was OTT - 'rambling' would have been better.

Returning to : " . . . . it's hard to conclude that this UK Govt has managed the Covid crisis well, despite the overwhelming advantage of being first on the vaccines track."

IMO no decisive factors have been identified to explain the difference between 2193 dpm in the UK and say, Japan 146 dpm, another populous industrial Nation with high density areas. Of course, it IS uncomfortable to think that we are not in good hands with this UK Govt. so, it's 'heads in the sand' as usual.

Myself I remain convinced that border controls, mask wearing and closure of superspreader events, have had decisive benefits in other Countries that have suffered far fewer deaths than the UK.

That's it. Back to Scancell for me now. ATB

[emptyend] 09/1/2022 16:40

Indeed you did ask that question, tf. My "hysterical"(in your opinion) response was written solely as a rebuttal of your ridiculous "question". Unfortunately your anti-Tory bigotry is preventing you from taking a rounded view of the facts - much of which have yet to emerge, as the comparators you adduced are nowhere near the end of it.I didn't vote for Boris or the Tories, by the way......Happy Sunday....

[panama7] 09/1/2022 15:20

TF, your ignorance is mind boggling. Of course the U.K has a very high death rate compared to other countries. We have carried out more tests per head of population than anywhere else. We have carried out 5 x more tests than Germany which has 20m higher population. Still after 2 years you like Inane do not understand the PCR Test. The Inventor stated that the cycle threshold for PCR is 25, anything above that is meaningless. In the U.K test centres have been running tests at 45 cycles making the results fraudulent and meaningless. We have also fundamentally changed the way deaths are reported ie anyone dying within 28 days of a fraudulent corrupt positive PCR is put down as a Covid death. Until you, Gazza, EE, WW, Inane get your head around this your posts are totally meaningless when it comes to discussing deaths from Covid.

[panama7] 09/1/2022 15:12

Roddy, in a normal flu season does everybody who turns up at Hospital for various illnesses get checked for flu using a fraudulent, corrupt PCR Test. Do patients who die of Cancer, Lung disease, Kidney failure, sepsis, RTA, get put down as dying of flu because thay were tested positive in the previous 28 days ?