Sanditon Investment Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 06/2/2018 21:23

Unfortunately, these fund managers are too clever for their own good. I've often be tempted to short, but stayed away. Its a dangerous game. Much better in my view (but less greedy) to buy quality or value and adjust your cash holding depending on where we are at in the cycle (i.e. I'm 20% cash at this point). If we do get a bigger correction or a bear market, they may do better but performance to date is none too clever.

[spectoacc] 06/2/2018 13:29

I think they've acknowledged it themselves already but they're basically betting against momentum. That can work at the top/bottom of the market, but who can call those, and how many of them are there? For the rest of the time, they're shorting risers and longing fallers and losing our money hand over fist.

As you say - easier to short CLLN, PFG, CPI, DEB etc as they fall, than to short the likes of JE. on the rise. Love that their biggest long - BAB - fell out of the FTSE 100 at the last review to be replaced by their biggest short - JE.

Would be interesting to see how their performance compares to a FTSE tracker - my guess is NAV would be nearer 150p than under 90p.

But it's the road back that worries me - just not sure how they're going to manage it.

(Tho re-reading the above makes me think we're the fools - we should have gone short SIT!).

[topvest] 06/2/2018 13:03

Yes, they have lost it. Why not short Carillion, Interserve, Provident Financial, Debenhams. They are shorting very dangerous stocks to short and backing long value traps. Only have a small holding, but it doesn't look too clever.

[spectoacc] 05/10/2017 08:47

Despite reservations, have bought an initial amount at 91.75p vs c.96p NAV. Never liked these at a premium, prefer them at a discount. On performance so far, wouldn't surprise me to see that discount widen further.

[spectoacc] 02/10/2017 13:02

They should have shorted the ones that went down you mean? :))

Agreed tho, always a mistake to short something with positive momentum, almost at whatever sky-high valuation it's at. Ocado another that springs to mind - could lose on that for years.

Just looked at this:

"Investment Objective:
To provide an absolute return in excess of 2% over the rate of inflation (measured by RPIX) and to provide low correlation with leading UK and European equity indices."

A pretty poor 3yr record. Yield of 1% at best, and NAV sat at 96.5p.

Still - they've got the low correlation nailed. Markets gone up loads.

[topvest] 02/10/2017 12:57

Yes, agreed - unlimited downside and limited upside. Think they were a little stupid to be shorting Just Eat. That's a recipe for disaster in a bull market, albeit they will eventually be correct proved that they can keep their nerve. They would be much better off shorting the obvious candidates of Debenhams, Carillion, Petrofac, Interserve etc. who are in financial difficulty.

[spectoacc] 02/10/2017 06:57

No dividend-while-you-wait though.

Trouble with shorts is just how badly wrong they can go - will they still be in when the market eventually turns?

[topvest] 29/9/2017 20:55

Starting to get interested in buying some more of these as they will do well with their shorts when we have a market correction. To date they have had a difficult time and maybe they are too clever with their long / short book. Shorting a growth stock like Just Eat is a dangerous game when there are easier targets out there. Its their short book that has caused them problems but that could turn quickly.
I will watch the discount as think this could do better in the next 2 years and offer some downside protection.

[spectoacc] 15/9/2017 07:44

To some extent they must suffer the same problem as all the others holding stakes in the management co - when it's going well, the management co is worth more and so is the trust and so is the management co and so on.

When it's going poorly, there's the risk that goes into reverse. I doubt SIT is going "poorly" enough just yet, though they won't be looking good in the tables. Not sure how their Unit Trusts are doing.

Spoke to them a while ago when I thought about investing and only the premium put me off. Now the performance does.

Edit - had to smile at this:

"Investment Objective
The Company's investment objective is to:
deliver absolute returns of at least 2% per annum, compounded annually, above RPIX; and
be an asset diversifier for shareholders by targeting low correlation with leading large capitalisation equity indices. "

It's certainly low correlation! Markets gone up, SIT gone down.

[topvest] 14/9/2017 21:05

Well this has performed very poorly to date. Are they trying to be too clever?

[hersonator] 14/9/2017 13:04

This is a winner.

[edwardt] 13/9/2017 14:15

short and wrong. little humble pie either.

[edwardt] 18/2/2016 11:59

asset management to be conservatively valued. £600m + of aum still means it will be a nice uplift when it comes!

[edwardt] 16/2/2016 10:52

well done topvest - for me the modest premium offers good value for the sam shareholding. also 'value' had its first period in years of outperforming growth which is conducive for the strategy....

[topvest] 29/1/2016 21:21

Well I bought a few at 102p today. Certainly an interesting little investment trust with a distinctive approach.

[topvest] 13/11/2015 20:51

Not enough to justify the current premium!

[edwardt] 13/11/2015 15:40

20% of SAM when aum is now £550m odd - not bad for a start up - what value do you put on that?

[topvest] 20/11/2014 20:44

Still on a hefty premium even after this fall.

[jl9] 06/11/2014 10:10

This is from a Fact Sheet dated 30/9/14 "The Company has a 20% equity stake in Sanditon Asset Management Limited."

[edwardt] 05/11/2014 15:48

r u sure it owns 20% of the equity in the asset management firm??

[jl9] 29/10/2014 22:55

Agreed, looks pricey. Although it could be grinding out a decent return.

The spike must be to do with Dean as she will help them grow Sanditon in which the trust has a 20% holding.

[topvest] 29/10/2014 19:11

It's certainly on a bit of a premium versus the 103p net asset value.

[jl9] 29/10/2014 12:45

She just has.

I wonder if this has caused the spike higher????

[edwardt] 09/9/2014 12:47

any views on whether julie d will join this lot - her former colleagues??