Safeland Share Discussion Threads

[topvest] 14/8/2015 10:07

Can't believe these have done so well and actually a dividend being paid again. Good luck to those that held firm. I would sell now if I still held as there is big dilution on the way. The Lipman's have done very well to restore shareholder value, albeit most of the value will be for themselves.

[battlebus2] 10/12/2014 08:18

Worth pointing out the dilutive effect of options...and 9.5 million loan due within a year.

[someuwin] 10/12/2014 08:12

Looking VERY cheap now!

[battlebus2] 10/12/2014 07:59

Results out.

[topvest] 08/11/2014 09:05

There won't be a dividend in my view. All the money goes to the Lipman family as it always has done...time for a new ferrari. The only shareholder benefit is the demerged entities. Beware.

[eezymunny] 07/11/2014 14:53

Just looked a bit more. Don't see how much they paid for Wimbledon so calculating a NAV looks impossible. So I'll retract my "punters paying way over the odds" comment until that's clear.

It's a whatever for me.

I only posted because people are quoting a market cap that fails to reflect the huge load of in the money options. It just needs to be clear that when they are exercised the market cap will be very much higher, and that peeps need to compare their projected NAV with that, much bigger, MCap, and not the misleading numbers people are quoting.

[the troll] 07/11/2014 14:42

agreed EM, it's not 34p but it's not 52p ( cuurent ask ) either, so difficult to project.

suspect they'll keep rising on these 'headline RNS's' though & have therefore raised my target to sell to 60p & out.

[eezymunny] 07/11/2014 14:30

You're numbers look simplistic Troll.

A fair bit has changed since the £10.6m NAV at 31st March.

Safestay demerger will have reduced NAV a bit I guess.
Profits/losses since, and factor in future profits for Chandos, Wimbledon.

Exercise of options would bring in c. £2m cash but market cap goes to c. £25m.

I see no way that this will have anywhere near £25m assets when Chandos, Wimbledon complete.

My strong suspicion is that punters are paying way over the real value of the company here...though as I say I've only whizzed through the numbers.

The punters here stating market cap at £7 or £8m are IMO just misleading people given the outstanding share options.

[the troll] 07/11/2014 14:28

you musn't misunderstand, the troll's been in SAF since 1994 & has done brilliantly out of it. only sold 20 % of them.

it just can't find a reason to stay in ( hence seeking the views of other - intelligent ?? - posters )

[ten bag man] 07/11/2014 13:59

£2M market cap in the Header post, now just short of £8M.

Time and time again all one has to do is buy and wait.

Might like to research another stock that I think can do the sane.

TRD.

GOOD LUCK.

PS:

Take a read on this thread all the trolls rubbish from 10p upwards.!!

[eezymunny] 07/11/2014 10:57

I'm not in the least surprised bb. The market is bonkers very often.

Your "Great news this morning, proceeds from the Wimbledon site agreed at 10.3 million. Market cap 6.7 million" comment is just plain misleading - when the 9.25p options get exercised the market cap becomes more like £25m, no?


Last quoted NAV was £10.6m. Some changes since then with Safestay demerger and these recent sales.

Perhaps you'd care to give us what you see as the current breakdown of assets/liabilities, then we can see if there's any value here?

Doesn't look like it to me but I can't be bothered to do it in any detail. I assume as a holder that a) you have and b) you're happy to share it with us?

[battlebus2] 07/11/2014 09:46

Moved up again today to the surprise of some!

[the troll] 06/11/2014 13:08

that's right & it's all very well crowing off about '£10m sales-proceeds', blah....blah.... BUT what's the land & build-out costing ? what's the profit ? that's what an investor needs to know.... just window-dressing this, maybe ramping up the Co's image ahead of them exercising those lousy options ?

[eezymunny] 06/11/2014 11:51

The company has granted share options to subscribe for ordinary shares of 5p each, as follows:
Number of share
Exercise price per Period within which options outstanding
Grant date share (pence) options are exercisable 2014 2013
28/09/2011 9.25 28/09/2014 to 27/09/2021 19,865,350 19,865,350

Can't see much value here with 20m options now exercisable at 9.25p?

[battlebus2] 06/11/2014 07:25

Great news this morning, proceeds from the Wimbledon site agreed at 10.3 million.
Market cap 6.7 million. :))
Oh I better mention those options to be fair.

[the troll] 03/9/2014 14:48

yeah, the smell of burning PI's after the Directors exercise their options later this month & transfer c £7 million pounds worth of ( pre-existing ) NTA & around 56% of ( future ) profits into their pockets. I've tried, but can't see any reason to hold these especially since they've de-merged the 'doss-house'....er, hotel ( NAI ).

[geraldton1] 03/9/2014 10:18

Wow someone must be keen on this...a buyer has picked up 30k shares at 3p over the offer! Something in the wind?

[topvest] 19/8/2014 20:09

Whatever the outlook - the money all goes to the Lipman's "lifestyle fund"! Warren Buffett - "you can't make a good deal with a bad person". I'm not saying they are bad, but Safeland is not run for the minority shareholders, and so don't expect to do anything other than speculate. There is no intrinsic value other than a vague demerger upside.

[the troll] 19/8/2014 17:38

'true' NAV; £10.61m ( final accounts ) + £1.83m ( ie; 19,865,350 Director's options @ 9.25p, coming up NEXT month ) = £12.44m / 36.716m shares ( ie; 16,851 - current + 19.865 ) = 33.9 pps.

a little less attractive than it first seems ? you'd expect poxy spivvy property co.s to present discounts to NAV, NOT premiums ! you have been warned.

OK, the profit outlook's pretty good, fair enough, & 'longs' should see decent returns ( NAI ), but only AFTER your altruistic Director's have seen even better. ( eg Chairman's salary for 13/14, + 60% ).

IMHO, they're a hold at best ( again, NAI ). good luck.

[topvest] 19/8/2014 16:23

This company is run for the Lipman family. The only value is through dividends en specie, but there has only been 1 in 10 years. What cars do they drive these days.. Wonder whether they have worked up from the Ferrari Enzo of the recession?

[smithie6] 19/8/2014 12:50

20M share options

very smelly company imo

[smithie6] 19/8/2014 12:29

checked...and 20M options granted around 9p for the 3 Lipmans is true....
see 2012 accounts.



The 3 Lipmans....papa and 2 sons....were there while 1.7M was misappropriated....
a lot of money in a small co.
similar in size to cap. value at that time !!!

Baker Tiley were the auditors....clearly did not do a good job imo...

the 3 Lipmans really knew nothing ??!!

Lipman holding of 64% is via a Panama co.


very smelly company imo

[smithie6] 19/8/2014 11:49

I see that around 1.5M pnds was mis appropriated....once assumes the FD was involved since he left suddenly just before the news......while the current MD was ....the MD

the amount of money was similar order of magnitude to the cap. value at that time

how can the MD still be there ?!
OK his family seems to own the co...

to lose such a high % of the co. assets while you are the MD is surely gross negligence imo even if it wasnt you doing the nicking....!!

[smithie6] 19/8/2014 10:38

over at Manx Financial Jim Mellon loaded himself up with lots of share options (via conv. loans)

disgraceful imo

very similar to what has happened here

-----

If a co. is doing badly the dirs. either stay there and keep taking the high salaries and bonuses....making money...while shareholders lose...until the co. goes bust
or leave

and if a co. is doing OK or well...then they often fill their pockets with the shareholders money.....via excessive taking of shares in the assets....