Redt Energy Share Discussion Threads

[dogrunner11] 19/9/2017 21:26

> It is no use pretending that Redt will grow to be a world beater

You read the competition in this area?

[pugugly] 19/9/2017 21:24

And yet another new battery entrant


"The Austrian company promises to squeeze some 65 percent extra range from standard lithium-ion batteries, thanks to patented laser-welding and thermal-cooling techniques."


Mainly about cars BUT ALSO home storage - so potentially another competitor if the 65% extra can read across -

[cheek212] 19/9/2017 21:15

I don't expect the interim to show much at all other than a loss from sales mainly related to Camco. This business isn't about it past performance though, it's about its future potential in what will be one of the biggest new industries in years. We have machines on demo now with most of the big six energy companies in Europe and it is only a matter of time until one of them tries to snap us up. It is no use pretending that Redt will grow to be a world beater as we are just a small player in what will be a vast ocean and the financial backing required will be way more than we could muster.Mark my words though, if our tech is proven, we will be acquired and I suspect the question to be when, not if - and for most of us smaller investors the longer it takes the better so that we get a better offer price for our shares.

[pugugly] 19/9/2017 21:06

Dig - Had you noticed that open water power has been sold to
- Interesting development - If REDT has cracked the technology could we go the same way or the Gildemeister way - Remember the Gildemeister partent appeared to have deep poskets,

[dogrunner11] 19/9/2017 20:52

If you want something that lasts and doesn't degrade hahahaha

In a word... many waiting for interims, they might be disappointed, then again they could be spot on.

[petewy] 19/9/2017 20:49

adding it all up. Do I buy?

[petewy] 19/9/2017 20:49

adding it all up. Do I buy?

[cheek212] 19/9/2017 20:39

Lithium has had a great orator in Musk who has done an excellent job in building the name of Lithium so that it is on everyone's lips - he is a modern day Richard Branson. However, technology has moved on and using Lithium for long term storage is like trying to push a circle into a square hole - it fits but no perfectly and ultimately something better fitting is going to come along, and has. LIthium will always have its place but it won't be in the large scale storage market or commercial storage - and as the large utilities companies and project managers start to realise this, then Vanadium will start to take over. Scott said at the AGM that he was taking phone calls from Energy Brokers who wanted to understand more about storage as they realised that LI wasn't working for them and that they needed longer term storage methods as the market was moving to longer term contracts and with LI degrading, it wasn't the answer. As the industry moves towards longer periods of energy supply it will need better, more reliable methods of storage which LI can't provide.

[dlg3] 19/9/2017 20:28

I give Tesla 5 to 7 years before the backers get fed up being mushrooms !!!!

[dlg3] 19/9/2017 20:27

In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s Design for the Environment program concluded that batteries using nickel and cobalt, like lithium-ion batteries, have the “highest potential for environmental impacts”. It cited negative consequences like mining, global warming, environmental pollution and human health impacts.

While Tesla declines to comment on the particular chemistry it uses, representative Khobi Brooklyn did list nickel as one of the components of the company’s batteries, and lithium is also obviously a component.

[dlg3] 19/9/2017 20:23

It also solves another Tesla problem. The majority of the company’s automotive customers want to be able to rapidly charge their cars at home, but the systems that enable that sort of charging are a major energy suck. Utilities don’t like them, and in many cases won’t allow them. Solution? Charge a Powerwall, then run your electric-vehicle charger off the stored energy.

“It’s a smart business move, and it might be a commercial success, but as a scientist I don’t think what Tesla’s proposing is a good solution,” says Tom Milnes, energy storage expert and CEO of Open Water Power, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology spin-off commercializing a fuel cell for use in naval drones. It’s not a Tesla competitor.

Lithium-ion batteries just won’t store the amount of energy required to be as useful as Musk promises, says Milnes: “Personally I think the Tesla factory producing hundreds of thousands more lithium-ion batteries is really short sighted because those batteries are just never going to hold the amount of energy we need them to.”

[dlg3] 19/9/2017 20:22

Tesla Motors made waves in April when it announced the launch of Tesla Energy, a new business unit that will provide lithium-ion batteries to homes and businesses. Tesla CEO Elon Musk described the potential of a world entirely powered by batteries charged with renewable energy. The media lapped it up, as did consumers, who preordered Tesla’s home battery solution, Powerwall, in droves.

But energy storage experts remain unconvinced. Even Panasonic – supplier of the lithium-ion cells that form the foundation of Tesla’s batteries, and partner on the company’s forthcoming battery factory – calls Musk’s claims hyperbole.

“We are at the very beginning in energy storage in general,” says Phil Hermann, chief energy engineer at Panasonic Eco Solutions. “Most of the projects currently going on are either demo projects or learning experiences for the utilities. There is very little direct commercial stuff going on.

“Elon Musk is out there saying you can do things now that the rest of us are hearing and going, ‘really?’; We wish we could but it’s not really possible yet.”


Low carbon battery-powered train carries first passengers
Read more
Musk’s optimism might in part be driven by necessity. The Nevada-based battery factory, called the “Gigafactory”, once completed will have a production capacity that far outstrips the demand produced by Tesla’s vehicles. What to do with all those extra batteries? Sell them in the residential and commercial markets.

[dlg3] 19/9/2017 20:08

Alchemy cheap battery or dear battery ????

[dlg3] 19/9/2017 20:06

now do I buy a phone with a battery that will last 3 to 4 years for £100, with many risks associated with charging and discharging or do I go for the longer lasting phone battery that is 25% dearer but lasts 3 times as long and has less risk involved with charging and discharging...in other words no chance of fu..ing up !!!

this problem seams to have happened once before !!!!! it involved a battery with a copper coloured top !!! now compared to an ordinary battery they are bloody expensive, but that did not impede sales!!!!!

I think most here and those installing grid storage would not mind the extra cost, the benefits outweigh the extra money,,,,,,, no fires, no overcharging or discharging problems, you do not have to replace 3 times to equal flow battery,s, the list is endless.......... unless you are as stupid as some posting here then you would opt for the better dearer battery !!!!

[dogrunner11] 19/9/2017 18:52

> Yes Lithium is cheaper than Vanadium and therefore the batteries probably are cheaper at this time

Don't think that really matters, if lithium can't do the job they will be looking for something that does, a flow machine creates a profitable revenue and needs little on-going maintenance.

Comparisons are just side flanking all, there is no comparison between the two technologies, unless of course you purchase something that isn't fit for purpose, or you are not clear what that purpose is at outset.

[netcurtains] 19/9/2017 18:37

thanks... gawd, does not sound that good.On the other hand it is chipping its way in..

[cheek212] 19/9/2017 18:29

I like the fact that the paragraph regarding lithium projects falling below 95% for the first time has been glossed over. Is this reason because other, better, technologies are now starting to gain momentum and are chipping away at the lead that Lithium has built for numerous years because, guess why? It was the only decent option at that time!! The article states that a lithium costs have fallen which is true - does it state though that you would need to replace those batteries potentially 2-3x over the life of a flow battery? How cheap are they then, and how much does it cost to dispose of these highly toxic lithium batteries that will have to be replaced every 7-10 years? Yes Lithium is cheaper than Vanadium and therefore the batteries probably are cheaper at this time, but project managers are staring to understand that Lithium isn't the answer for long storage projects and that there are now other options which less than 1-2 years ago there wasn't.

[pugugly] 19/9/2017 18:10

netcurtains: I think melody999 has probably posted (2786) a more complete answer than I could provide - If you need more you will need to subscribe to the full article at Navigant - Will cost though -

[dogrunner11] 19/9/2017 18:00

Melody,

You are certainly very well researched, I for one can honestly say that is the most powerful statement I have ever read.... And you would short at 10p, this is one dog.

Just out of interest, what part of that article stands out to you? Positive or negative as I realise you are very smart.

Super!

[netcurtains] 19/9/2017 17:11

..so PUGUGLY what I as ordinary joe wants to know is why is Vanadium not as economic as Lithium - what is wrong with our tech? And if it is wrong is it fixable?

Only short and easy to understand answers (if any) thanks