Proactis Share Discussion Threads

[cantrememberthis2] 29/4/2019 09:23

I'm in at 29.875p £6K worth...

[eggbird] 29/4/2019 09:17

It would be a very bullish sign to see Richard Hughes buy a chunk of shares over the next few days. I'm very happy with my investment here, and will be adding soon.

[p1nkfish] 29/4/2019 09:13

The ex-acquisition is ESIZE and the fall is down to Perfect. Strip out Perfect. Perfect is the issue and its known but Perfect was bought for more than one reason - tech capability, acceleration of APF capabilities, full online handling in marketplace. That is worth a few $'s but hard to put a fast value on until the new offerings using it are launched.

They overpayed and need to clear up the mess, which they will do well.

Meanwhile their account base is impressive.

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 09:12

LolSo you would also say the Coupa comparison is stupid too!?You still haven't explained why you are so bitter towards this company...were you one of the cost saving redundancies??

[eezymunny] 29/4/2019 09:05

I'd say, cynical sid, PHD shareholders best hope here is be be taken out. Somebody might just find the price/sales attractive and pay a small premium. But really, with revenues (ex acquisition) falling, customers presumably going elsewhere etc, is there really anything here that anybody would want to buy?

PRSM revenues are going through the roof and there's no debt to worry about and they are completely different to PHD. Mr Market (usually incorrectly) put bonkers valuations on stuff like PRSM. That's absolutely irrelevant for PHD IMO.

The comparism of PHD and PRSM is the stupidest one I've seen in decades of investing. Bless you.

[p1nkfish] 29/4/2019 09:00

It's all about the debt level and chucking out the divi to address that whilst having to bring Perfect into line.

The strategy makes total sense but strategy is one thing, executing quite another and they haven't fully outlined the execution steps. Probably because it's too much of an internal set of processes.

I have confidence it will come very good so long as they get back to their knitting. The Hubwoo capabilities will be most useful - just a shame the debt level ran up so fast. They overpayed for Perfect and it will remain so unless they get real traction in Perfects customer base with up-sell and cross-sell.

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 08:50

If you want a more relevant comparator that PRSM, take a look at Coupa...$6.3bn and still loss making

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 08:48

EezyMunny seems to have an intriguing grudge against PHD...wonder what the background is!?Don't see how anyone can be too bearish on a company capped at 50% of its revenue in a highly rate sector (trading on 3-10x revenue)

[p1nkfish] 29/4/2019 08:48

Time will come when undervaluation will be combined with being unloved and in an uptrend - great when that happens. Needs time to address debt and get growth moving again and APF running.

Look for Autumn news around Re-Think UK 2019 imho.

[p1nkfish] 29/4/2019 08:45

If there is share price weakness in the near term henceforward it's now down to speculators becoming bored and realising they have to hold so selling and moving on.

No bad thing.

All the others are already out.

[p1nkfish] 29/4/2019 08:43

Nonsense about obfucation, they have laid cards on the table.

[durthur] 29/4/2019 08:43

Just email the company, they are happy to share debt covenant terms (although not exact definitions of how items like EBITDA are calculated).

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 08:42

If they were close to breaching covenants, why would HSBC have committed another £20m for APF? And again, why would directors have been buying??

[buywell3] 29/4/2019 08:42

Obfuscation this morning … only delaying the inevitable

Mr Market always wins

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 08:40

The customers, sale cycle, average contract, ARR etc etc are very similar. The companies have worked together and similar history PHD valued at £27m with directors buyingPRSM valued at £1.5bn with directors selling

[p1nkfish] 29/4/2019 08:38

They have a £50M Debt facility of which they have drawn about £39.5M and are within covenants. They can whittle away at that.

Meanwhile the below is worth re-reading as HSBC have offered up £20M for the start/test that doesn't look like a PHD liability so not part of the £50M facility and not yet drawn anyway. PHD take a fee, probably not offering credit. A UNIQUE OFFERING according to HSBC.

"The Group intends to offer an accelerated payment
service to suppliers to facilitate growth or working
capital benefits in return for a small discount. This
opportunity has been previously deferred because of
the technology transition referred to in the previous
paragraph. The Board considers that this is a significant
opportunity and the Group is now in a position to pursue
it vigorously with new resource being recruited and
permanent re-allocation of existing capacity planned."

"The technology and commercial model acquired with Perfect
is much more advanced than Proactis’ own equivalent
technology and commercial model and the Board believes
that the realisation of the supplier opportunity within the
Proactis customer base will, as a result, be de-risked through
the adoption of this technology and commercial model."

[buywell3] 29/4/2019 08:38

The truth of the matter IMO is that bigger holders are now locked in

The first to try to bail could trigger others to do likewise

Coming global macro events could soon trigger such actions IMO

[eezymunny] 29/4/2019 08:35

They haven't breached covenants, possibly because the bank was daft enough (IMO) to put EBITDA based covenants in. Given the current situation PHD really OUGHT to tell investors the whole story re the debt (most companies detail it in the AR) IMO. You can bet they are having some very difficult conversations with their banks IMO.

PRSM a completely different sector FFS - robotic process automation. PHD is in eprocurement. They are simply poles apart. lolololol

[dave4545] 29/4/2019 08:33

I read the results several times this morning.

Not really negative but not that positive either so decided to sell to use the money elsewhere. Be surprised if there's any wild swings in the price unless the directors pile in for shares which would be a good sign and I would then buyback some

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 08:29

If they were breaching their covenants, why would the directors be buying at 2x this price? They would just do a placing and invest in that

[cynical sid] 29/4/2019 08:26

Why plain stupid?? What is so different about their offerings, business model, customer base etc etc

[eezymunny] 29/4/2019 08:20

A comparison with PRSM is just plain stupid.

1.5m free cash flow vs that debt is a disaster IMO and stinks of placing to come. Why is there still no covenants detail in the narrative? I can guess that covenants are base on adj EBITDA (lolololol IMO) but when the loans expire you can bet your life (IMO) that EBITDA won't be seen within 5000000 miles of the covenant statement for any new loans :)