Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[masurenguy] 16/1/2017 16:29

RCT - what will the lower dividend be this year ?

[wllmherk] 16/1/2017 16:06

it will still beat any high street bank account MrT. The tip in the daily mail hasn't helped the share price

wllm

[rcturner2] 16/1/2017 15:54

The yield isn't as high as that. They will be lowering the dividend on a per share basis since the new shares were issued.

[masurenguy] 16/1/2017 15:18

I've also taken an initial position here today in my ISA equity fund. Fundamentals look good and the 7.3% yield provides a very good income stream.

[linton5] 16/1/2017 15:04

I've just purchased Shoe essential a wee gem I'm sure,company has no debt results stable and a stonking divi. Superb bargain

[essentialinvestor] 16/1/2017 08:16

Added a small amount on the dip.

[linton5] 10/1/2017 17:12

I'm actually in Dlg at 351 from aback but was gonna top up from this dip but only if reaches 352. Check out esur I'm in that also read last updates,also a possible t/o target

[essentialinvestor] 10/1/2017 16:54

Nice day, markets overdue at least a breather though,
downside risks imv.


LINTON, Came close to adding some DLG this afternoon, risk/reward
looks interesting, providing nothing unexpected with the FEB FY.

[linton5] 10/1/2017 11:40

Yea very nice stock this one good income just like adm

[essentialinvestor] 10/1/2017 11:32

speed, appreciated, thanks.

[speedsgh] 10/1/2017 11:23

EI - 2016 cash generation target of £350-450m was prior to AXA acquisition (see 2015 Final Results -

AFAICS from today's rns...
Phoenix Group Holdings ("Phoenix" and, together with its subsidiaries, the "Group") announces that it has generated a total of £486 million of cash from the Group's operating companies in 2016. Of this total cash generation, £117 million has been generated from the integration of the AXA Wealth pensions and protection businesses ("AXA Businesses") that were acquired on 1 November 2016.

So £486m - £117m = £369m cash generation excl AXA Businesses, which therefore falls within original 2016 target of £350-450m.

[my retirement fund] 10/1/2017 11:19

Been able to get my fill over last few days, happy to be back with a decent weighting again.

[essentialinvestor] 10/1/2017 11:01

If the 2016 cash generation targets of 350M-450 were made factoring in AXA,
then today's confirmation of a significant exceeding looks a very strong
performance imv.

Any thoughts on that?.

[sogoesit] 10/1/2017 09:08

Ok, sure, follow now. Thanks, jonwig.

[jonwig] 10/1/2017 09:03

Sogoesit - no, the hoped-for buyers of their new debt will not be too keen.

[sogoesit] 10/1/2017 09:01

Thanks jonwig. My thoughts too RCTurner.
Jonwig : "I don't think... investors... too keen to see an equity dividend hike."
I don't follow. Are you saying, with a yield already quite high, equity investors would prefer that they retain capital thus moving the share price higher over time than take further income?

[jonwig] 10/1/2017 09:01

True, but I'd assume the bank stuff was variable but the new debt instruments were fixed (not necessarily at a lower rate than current bank), which would be their main motivation. And hence greater visibility.

Actually, their dividend record isn't over-generous compared with their cash generation. They've had historically high levels of debt (for a life company) and I think will continue to be cautious. Three years of merely maintained dividends remember? ('13-'15.)

[rcturner2] 10/1/2017 08:00

jonwig, if they are swapping expense bank overdrafts for long term loans, surely there will be more cash available?

[essentialinvestor] 10/1/2017 07:55

Cash generation looks ahead of target on a quick scan of that statement.

[jonwig] 10/1/2017 07:51

It was a bit higher, yes, but they are a cautious lot and didn't ram home the point. However, as quoted in my post #2054, they have stated the cash sum they will pay out for H2 2016 and the whole of 2017.

Note, too, that they are reorganising their debt by raising stuff on the bond market to repay bank loans. I don't think potential investors will be too keen to see an equity dividend hike.

[sogoesit] 10/1/2017 07:44

To my lay-, or lazy, eye the update says cash generation has been higher and faster than previously forecast.
Am I right and, if so, does that imply there could be a higher dividend payout?

(I took up some rights but not all; and now thinking to re-allocate as my largest holding in this sector is CSN).

[lauders] 09/1/2017 01:26

Thank you for all the feedback. PHNX does look to be near the top now. Just considering LGEN as I like the look of what they are doing per the last annual report. If the derivatives concerns hit the fan though I would think both would suffer badly (knock-on effect of anything financial related) while GSK would weather the storm better. That is my main concern now.

[essentialinvestor] 08/1/2017 09:57

Like GSK(largest single holding) however FCF will barely cover the dividend in 2017.
Last year a significant part of their dividend was paid from debt.
A rebasing of the GSK payout under a new CEO may happen
as part of an invest for growth strategy, just my take.


Added a few PHNX on Friday afternoon.

[garycook] 08/1/2017 08:57

Lauders,I own shares in GSK,LGEN,and PHNX.If I had to choose between the 3,now it would be PHNX,for growth and a dividend income of at least 6%.Regarding HSD,there could be a possibility of a dividend cut.So play safe with PHNX.IMHO DYOR.

[jonwig] 08/1/2017 08:24

We had a long discussion of the forthcoming dividends back in October, but it does no harm to review it, as the Midas article has (probably) got it wrong ...

Regarding the "54.7p dividend for 2016, rising to 57p for 2017", these numbers are stated in the RI prospectus, with the caveat that they are 'before adjustment for the rights issue'.
The prospectus says clearly [p 56]:

The incremental cashflow generation from the Acquisition supports (subject to regulatory approval) a proposed increase in dividends in respect of 2017 to £197 million.

This is 50.14p/sh on the current 392.85m shares in issue.

Also, they say "the Board is expecting to increase the final dividend in respect of 2016 to £69 million" which would be 17.6p, giving a total for 2016 of 44.3p.