Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[mridyard] 06/12/2018 14:59

This is one of my favourite stocks, very cyclical, buy low, sell high.7.8% div. Always gets hammered for no technical reason imo.Broker target av price 766p.

[essentialinvestor] 06/12/2018 11:25

Jon, yes that is a fair comment.
Consumer staples/discretionary usually the last to roll over, ULVR etc.

[jonwig] 06/12/2018 11:23

EI - like other financials, it's getting hit early! Maybe FIFO?

[essentialinvestor] 06/12/2018 11:13

Appreciate this may be too rudimentary a view -
will PHNX be disproportionately hit as we enter the next equity bear market?.
Most financials usually battered..

[edmundshaw] 05/12/2018 09:52

stun, you hit the nail on the head! Yes, Sla. Sorry for the mis-post.

[stun12] 05/12/2018 09:45

edmundshaw, I take it that's SLA rather than PHNX?

[yupawiese2010] 05/12/2018 09:40

I think we would all like to buy at a tad over 251p !!!!

[linton5] 05/12/2018 09:38

Wow how did you manage that mate,have you contacts in the city

[edmundshaw] 05/12/2018 09:36

Couldn't resist this morning. Added at just over 251p. When the yield hit 8.5%....

Edit: that was an addition to SLA, who own 20% of Phoenix shares... not PHNX, obviously!! (I wish)

[linton5] 04/12/2018 10:43

Obvious this is getting held back chapos mmm

[jonwig] 04/12/2018 08:43

I think you're right: and it's not the only mispriced stock. But a eurozone crisis would impact the whole EU-UK financial system via the banks.

[edmundshaw] 04/12/2018 08:05

Eurozone bonds and equities are hardly major components of the black box, though. Brexit is also very well planned for by the company - even a hard Brexit is not going to affect them very badly. I think this is just mis-priced right now.

[jonwig] 03/12/2018 20:18

jimbox - PHNX isn't an ordinary company: it doesn't make stuff or sell stuff.

First, it's a big black box throwing off cash but whose size is declining. It can throw off this cash for 25-30 years before it fizzles out.

Second, the box gets filled up by acquisitions and in-force policies which both increase the size of the box and lengthen the payout time. To achieve this, the company raises more cash via share issues, debt.

If you concentrate on eps and profits (ie. ordinary accounting principles) I think you'll miss the point of this.

The problems, though, are that the assets which sit in the box are a bit fragile: eurozone bonds, equities, ... and that's why the share price has been weak.

All the above - just my opinion: open to reasoned argument.

[jimbox1] 03/12/2018 19:59

It's all very well having a fat juicy yield, but if it is not covered by profits, the net asset value per share will decline. The share price will continue to decline until the EPS exceeds the DPS.

[chuckol] 03/12/2018 15:44

I believe that people on this thread should be very careful. If you express disagreement with jonwig, a frequent poster on this thread, he will institute a search for your IP address. He has been boasting on the WPCT thread that he has discovered that the best poster on that thread posts from a very particular location. How else could he have found out other than by using a nefarious piece of software?

I have been told that this particular piece of kit could also enable him to look up the skirts of female posters. I somehow doubt that because his salient characteristic seems to be his impotence.

[lauders] 03/12/2018 11:32

The webcast of the Capital Markets Day is now available on the website too:

Something to check-out when I am able. At least we are having a more positive day here today. Hope that was a double bottom on the chart!

[edmundshaw] 30/11/2018 09:22

That is not a solid yield that is a fantastic yield.

They are generating pretty reliable cash of £12 billion over the long term without considering M&A, management action beyond 2023, Bulk annuities, new business from SLA partnership or uplift in premiums from in-force policies. The dividend is costing about £340m a year. That is a safety factor of some thirty years (if they sat on their hands - hardly likely). Plus they have met or exceeded their promises every year since 2010.

[jonwig] 30/11/2018 09:18

Thanks edmundshaw - have acknowledged.

[edmundshaw] 30/11/2018 09:13

IC getting it very wrong there - with the promised 3.5% uplift after the final results the yield here is now 7.8%. Lazy journalism.

[jonwig] 30/11/2018 09:09

IC repeats its 'buy' tip:

Management estimates that the Prudential Regulatory Authority’s review into providers holding lifetime mortgages to back annuities could reduce the group’s Solvency II capital by £0.2bn, if enacted. However, it does not expect any impact on the cash-generation targets. The shares are trading at 1.4 times Investec’s forecast net tangible assets at the December year-end, a less demanding valuation than in March. Given the shares offer a potential yield of 6.5 per cent, they remain a solid income buy.

Red highlight a typo? Thanks to edmundshaw.

[aleman] 30/11/2018 09:03

Not just the UK where life expectancy is falling then?

[rimau1] 29/11/2018 22:30

I thought we might push on today with the good news, UK market exposure keeping a lid on the price. Becoming the norm to have blue chip stocks with 7%+ yields!

[linton5] 29/11/2018 16:30

Much appreciated jonwig impressive presentation stats and slides 👌

[jonwig] 29/11/2018 16:17

Here are today's slides:



Interesting to see the value of, and importance of, Open Business - we're not just in run-off.

[linton5] 29/11/2018 16:06

Shocked it’s still this low strange markets at times