Phoenix Share Discussion Threads

[ursus] 15/1/2021 11:49

Could recent price weakness be explained by some pending corporate actions - eg an acquisition and/or fundraising - that is known to some but not all?

[bluemango] 15/1/2021 11:44

It's "you're". Once might be a careless mistake, twice indicates ignorance.

Try taking responsibility and finding creative solutions rather than blaming everyone but yourself.

[bluemango] 15/1/2021 11:10

Fair point re Covid, William.

Although weren't people suggesting on here that poorer longevity rates/excess deaths were grimly positive for Phoenix?

[williamcooper104] 15/1/2021 09:32

It's not the thread to argue the rights and wrongs of Brexit But the economic consequences of it does have a bearing on most domestic focused U.K. stocksAnyways - to be be brutal; a bad Brexit/covid /economic outlook isn't good for longtivity, which is a tailwind for pension risk transfer assets

[bluemango] 15/1/2021 09:00

"Post Brexit ....blah blah blah" Spoken like a true socialist. Corbyn & Starmer would be proud of you!

P.s. If you want to moan about Brexit, I'm sure there are other threads for champagne Socialists where you can do that. This is a Phoenix thread.

[my retirement fund] 14/1/2021 21:51

Me too, it's probably related to the longer and wider term economic damage of Brexit. Also there will be an awful lot of doors that have now been slammed shut for them. Lastly big money long term financial services such a phoenix have been driven by the global investment community that will for obvious reasons be donning the kid gloves and barge poles for the foreseeable.

[panshanger1] 14/1/2021 14:42

Find the recent weakness here puzzling.Core holding for me. All in ISA so will wait till April before I top up Hopefully at this level or better ??GLA

[my retirement fund] 14/1/2021 11:16

Just took some at 7.11

[soi] 13/1/2021 07:27

Hi

I sold out of my holding at 727.

I would like to buy back in of course.
It has dropped back, might rise back up before I get a chance.

Thinking along the lines of trying to get a 705 buy if possible

GL

[lauders] 13/1/2021 01:16

Given PHNX's strong ESG stance now some may consider the Social part of their policy at odds with the benefits that may result from the discussion above. A bit of a catch 22 situation or am I mistaken?

This piece, while a promotional one to a great extent, makes some interesting reading. I am happy, after watching the recording of the last Capital Markets Day, that the dividend is safe for many years and with future M&A activity may grow.

[jonwig] 12/1/2021 14:24

Yes, this was on the 1 o'clock news.
You either accept this as a welcome positive news item for the share price, or decide not to invest in PHNX for ethical reasons.

The major drug companies involved have made a limited decision to sell at no profit, but that's a different matter as tey aren't bound by long-term contracts.

[williamcooper104] 12/1/2021 14:06

Apparently U.K. excess mortality is at highest levels since the 1920s Grim - but every cloud as they say

[williamcooper104] 10/1/2021 14:28

So while PHNX won't shout about it - covid is good for business

[williamcooper104] 10/1/2021 14:27

Life insurance is a great hedge on annuity longtivity risk - though even with that they are still hugely exposed to longtivity - but higher long term rates would further reduce that exposure

[lauders] 10/1/2021 10:31

Nice to see PHNX beng efficient and updating their financial calendar the other day. A lot of other companies could learn from their promptness.

[edmundshaw] 08/1/2021 20:58

One of Phoenix's "management actions" that releases captial is by balancing risks - so for example beingexposed to both annuities and life policies means that the risks cancel and some of the cash surplus held against longevity risk can be released... it is not rocket science, but it does mean that they may not gain so much from events like this (or lose so much).

[fenners66] 08/1/2021 09:49

"conversely it’s grimly positive for the annuity book"
Surprised that there has not been more made of this actuarial aspect.

Since the majority of lives lost are in the pensioner bracket there must be annuity surpluses being generated.

Clearly as time passes the reduced take up of annuities (as opposed to draw down) may have a longer term negative effect.

[masurenguy] 08/1/2021 01:17

Main points.

*Phoenix confident that the coronavirus will prompt insurers to offload closed books of life policies.

*Heightened concerns about the riskiness of company balance sheets should prompt more businesses take out insurance cover against the liabilities in their pension schemes

*So far COVID has had no negative impact on thebusiness

*Circa £323bn in assets under administration, split almost evenly between closed book and open funds.

*Last year it generated £1.7bn in cash and it expects to generate a further £4.2bn over the next 3 years and may surpass this as it has in the past.

*Shares trade at just 9.3 x forecast earnings with an estimated yield of 6.7%

Rated a Buy by Tempus as the shares are cheap and the yield high.

[williamcooper104] 08/1/2021 00:47

Good write up in the Times - behind paywall and I can't copy n paste it Recommends buying the stock Nothing new - highlights how CV19 isn't so bad for the life book as most people dying are outside of the age of typical life policy holders - and that conversely it's grimly positive for the annuity book

[soi] 07/1/2021 04:26

Hi

I am wrong, my sincere apologies .Behind the times.
Glad it has been spotted by others though as that throws my figures out.

Sorry

[skinny] 06/1/2021 14:10

That sounds about right!

[speedsgh] 06/1/2021 14:07

Think stamp duty has been payable since the holding company became tax resident in the UK...

"The current Group holding company structure was formed at the time of the Group's restructuring in 2009. Under the current structure, Old Phoenix is a Cayman Islands-incorporated company which, with effect from 31 January 2018, is tax resident in the United Kingdom (having previously been tax resident in Jersey). This structure is complex for the Group's shareholders, debt investors and regulators and imposes additional burdens on the Group's internal governance processes. On 25 August 2016 Old Phoenix announced that, as part of an ongoing group simplification process, it intended to put in place a new UK-registered holding company for the Group. This Scheme is now the final step in the Group's onshoring journey which has delivered a streamlined and cost-efficient internal governance structure and will result in a clearer structure for the Group's shareholders, debt investors and regulators."

[jeff h] 06/1/2021 13:34

Yes I have been charged SD post the below RNS in Nov 18 but not on purchases pre Nov 18 so assume it is due to the below:-