Pendragon Share Discussion Threads

[whiteshark1] 12/8/2019 11:54

As I said, this is Automitive, not property. in the 10's now as predicted

[debsdowner] 09/8/2019 17:13

gutterhead, I agree with your analysis.

[jeffian] 01/8/2019 23:44

So it has £240m land and property assets. That's rather less than the £266m 'goodwill' it carries on the Balance Sheet. If push comes to shove, one will cancel the other out.

[gutterhead] 01/8/2019 19:40

Depleted (over time and probably overvalued) property assets won’t save this shower.
They need to be well run and expert retailers. They’re not either.
Wig, I understand your comfort ref the property and that’s your prerogative.
We all look at things differently and that’s what makes a market. Good luck to all.

[whiteshark1] 01/8/2019 17:00

Ps , never said they had no property assets , just less than they have had in the past . They had to save the company by doing a sale and leaseback.
I also stated it wasn’t a property company , in case you missed it , it falls under automotive.
Anyway , sorry if my comments are misleading . 👍

[whiteshark1] 01/8/2019 16:57

Thank you Wigs .
You’ve made me feel very positive about my self , even a feeling of superiority.
Thanks again .
Anyway I’ll get back to investing in a property company now that I’ve been enlightened .

[wigwammer] 01/8/2019 15:25

"It's fairly incidental". LOL. The property is valued at £240m and the enterprise value of the whole business is circa £300m. So it is is clearly not incidental and it is highly misleading to state they have no property assets. The idea of these boards is to exchange useful information - perhaps thank me another time :)

[gutterhead] 01/8/2019 13:09

Regarding property, I reffered to the sale and leaseback they did approx 15 years ago.
They needed the cash so sold their property in return for higher rents.
So lets agree that they haven't as much property as they once had 😁

[whiteshark1] 01/8/2019 11:44

Wigs, its fairly incidental. Great they have some property assets ( far less than in the past).
The point is that the company is poorly run and has been for years. Their return is a fraction vs the top performers in the sector , their relationships with staff and manufacturers is shocking but most importantly for the guys who post on here, the share price is slipping further and further.
Have missed anything or am I misinformed?

[wigwammer] 01/8/2019 10:48

Gutter - with due respect, your assertion that the company has no property was incorrect. I mean it as no slant on you, but isn't it odd how some in society appear to value being misinformed. ATB :)

[gutterhead] 31/7/2019 16:21

As automotive groups go, this is probably the worst run, worst to work for etc and has been for many years.
Talented auto execs never wanted to work for them and that is still the case.
I have short term traded it, bought it for 1.3p back in 2008/09 but would never hold it medium/long term-its a dog.
All that said, it is an opportunity for a talented leader to turn it around and I would invest if they secured the right person.

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 13:38

"Nobody cares about the property assets." Please speak for yourself. You don't need a great deal of nous to work out why owning the operating assets is rather preferable to not owning them, and highly relevant to valuing the business. Stick to day trading :)

[whiteshark1] 31/7/2019 13:28

Im sure this will bounce shortly, I will probably get back in to it , purely as a trader not as a long term holder.

They need to secure a good leader who can handle the board.

Nobody cares about the property assets when its main business is cars and customers.

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 13:25

Perhaps that was useful information at 30p+, and I'm sure if I went back I'd find you inundating the board with this knowledge when the shares were at the peak. Whoever the sellers have been, I hope they haven't done so on the naive belief that the company doesn't have property assets :)

[whiteshark1] 31/7/2019 13:12

more sellers than buyer, yes, that must be it.

Probably the realise this is a very badly run business, all beit well established.

Great brands to sell but done so in a shocking way, they treat their staff badly, their manufacturer partners get the same treatment.
Their current , no haggle sales process on used cars is poor and losing them business.

Watch this space,

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 13:01

More sellers than buyers. Perhaps the sellers are naive and don't realise the business has valuable software and property assets :)

[whiteshark1] 31/7/2019 12:59

wonder why the share price is so low , if the company is so good?

Don't say Brexit

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 12:42

Fair point gutter, although if they are overcharging themselves for software it means they are overstating costs elsewhere - you can't have it both ways. Nor is pinewood tiny - a growing business generating £10m+ op profit is highly meaningful in the context of a £170m cap company. Additionally, they have substantial property assets, contrary to what you stated earlier.

[gutterhead] 31/7/2019 12:34

Pinewood is tiny and its biggest customer is PDG itself
it can say whatever it likes regarding op margin as it charges itself whatever price it chooses
In the wider market it probably has less than 2% of the auto dealer management system market-because it is outdated

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 12:33

Growing revenue, growing profit, high margin. Nice business :)- We have an objective to achieve at least double digit growth in revenue in the Software as a Service ("SaaS") business for the foreseeable future, which will be achieved by globalisation of the products and services we offer.- Pinewood is fast becoming a global business with users in a number of countries worldwide. We are actively expanding the business in Europe, Africa and Asia Pacific and seeking opportunities elsewhere. Underlying GBPm 2018 2017 Change (%) L4L Change (%) ======== ======== ========== ============== Revenue GBP16.9 GBP15.8 7.0% 7.0% ======== ======== ========== ============== Gross Profit GBP14.9 GBP13.8 8.0% 8.0% ======== ======== ========== ============== Operating Costs (GBP3.2) (GBP2.9) 10.3% 10.3% ======== ======== ========== ============== Operating Profit GBP11.7 GBP10.9 7.3% 7.3% Gross Profit % 88.2% 87.3% 0.9% 0.9% ================= ======== ======== ========== ============== Operating Profit % 69.2% 69.0% 0.2% 0.2% ================= ======== ======== ========== ==============

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 12:25

Any intelligent thoughts on what pinewood might be worth? Growing software business, £16m+ sales, 69% op margin. Probably covers half the market cap on its own :)

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 12:21

It's a car company with a large property portfolio and a growing software business.

[whiteshark1] 31/7/2019 12:05

Pity its a car company.

My understanding was most of the property got tied up in a sale and lease back deal

[wigwammer] 31/7/2019 12:00

"Our property portfolio provides a key strength for our business. At 31 December 2018, the Group had GBP240.5 million of land and property assets (2017 : GBP261.2 million) and property assets for sale of GBP35.4 million (2017 : GBP9.6 million)."