Pcf Share Discussion Threads

[graham1ty] 21/5/2021 12:48

Bloody hell......it gets worse.....

[cc2014] 21/5/2021 12:36

I saw the RNS flag pop up and thought "good on PCF, an RNS to clarify what's going on"

And then I read it. Scott steps down as CEO and resigns as director of the group.


Edit: I'm not sure what to read into that other than it can't be good.

[cc2014] 21/5/2021 08:29

I have been spending some time thinking about the current situation and regrettably the longer the information vacuum goes on the worse I think it looks.

Given that they have been sorting the accounts now for 5 months and their auditors will have already gone through the big numbers perhaps 3 months ago I'm speculating something new has come up and it's magnitude must be above some materiality level. By this I mean more than a couple of million, else they wouldn't have suspended the shares.

The 2 RNS's seem to me to be buying time before they put out another announcement, which I again speculate is because they actually don't know the extent of the problem or perhaps they just need some time and given it's Friday they might as well leave it suspended the rest of the day, work the weekend and update the market on Monday. Better to do one update which has clarity than have to keep updating as you've missed something.


My concern would be it's lending fraud which has been on the rise. OSB had problems. Obviously this is pure speculation on my part and I've hesitated before raising it. Scott has previously referred to this being on the rise. I would suggest it would take some time to quantify any losses on this sort of fraud if this is the unhappy situation they are in.

[cc2014] 21/5/2021 08:23

Somers can be easily researched. They have a website. Their performance last year was exceptional.

PCF represent 6% of their total holdings.

[dandigirl] 21/5/2021 08:13

David - Thank you for your thoughts. Your insight much appreciated.

We invested because we were comfortable with Scott and Robert. Sincerely hope that Scott gets through this but we shall see. Surely someone must go. NEDs must be feeling very uncomfortable, especially the Somers representative.

David, any thoughts you can share regarding the major shareholder please?

[seasidehippo] 21/5/2021 08:11

"In due course" doesnt sound like any time soon!!

[graham1ty] 21/5/2021 07:23

Silence again this morning.......

[graham1ty] 21/5/2021 07:10

David, do you have my email address ? From a few years ago ?

[123davidgwilym] 20/5/2021 23:09

Graham, I’m free to say what I please. But I’ll wait for the announcement.
Take care.

[graham1ty] 20/5/2021 22:20

David, I am sure you cannot say anything, even if you know anything, we have met at many AGMs. I have been invested in PCF for over ten years. This is awful, and all the goodwill and reputation so carefully built up, is blown away almost overnight.

I have always claimed ( just look at my comment a few days ago) that management is better, quality control better, systems better than rivals. Scott had built up a strong reputation, had been open to investors, had made sure he did lots of shareholder events.

What worries me more is that accounting issues have been at the forefront of investors minds, new accounting rules about impairments, Covid survival, the move to Prime lending. Then the FD leaves; then adjustments to announced Prelims; then delays to the accounts. Now suspension. All indicates that this is worse than any of us realise. The Stock Exchange do not suspend lightly, and rarely for two days.

Where has it gone wrong ? The reputation of PCF will take years to recover.

Very unhappy......

[seasidehippo] 20/5/2021 21:48

imo in this particular instance the company has gone seriously backwards they need to provide more clarity/resolution in a timely manner “in due course” hardly seams appropriate timescales.

[123davidgwilym] 20/5/2021 19:48

I’m feeling quite upset about this.
I was Chairman from 2011 to 2016.
In 2011 the company’s situation was fragile. There had been some bad business decisions and management were poor at talking to investors and had a track record of unfulfilled forecasts.
By the end of 2016 PCF was financially sound, profitable and expanding, and was acquiring a banking licence. We had a good reputation for clear communication with investors and for always delivering on our promises.
I doubt the company has gone seriously backwards and wait to hear more.

[geraldus] 20/5/2021 19:12

They are still open for business at least butI hope they get this sorted pronto,don't want savers getting nervous.

[dandigirl] 20/5/2021 17:45

Bell are right, of course. It just brings home a worst case scenario.

Wham! Take that!

Unlikely, but as you say, we don’t know.

[seasidehippo] 20/5/2021 17:26

How would anyone know what value to attribute to the shares at this point in time??

[dandigirl] 20/5/2021 16:30

A J Bell are showing ours as worth nothing, zero! I feel sick.

[cjd190573] 20/5/2021 16:02

Not like it isn’t stressful enough already being a shareholder at the moment. This will undoubtedly leave a footprint on the SP, as and when it comes back to life.

[seasidehippo] 20/5/2021 15:41

If it isn't serious someone needs their knuckles wrapped to say the least.

What I cannot forgive is the apparent inability to ring fence the root cause of the issue(s) or to provide an expected/provisional date for completion.

Highly disappointing!!

[dandigirl] 20/5/2021 09:24

Think we all agree on this - serious, serious stuff. Makes one wonder about the quality of info given at that share raising a couple of years back. Hmmm.

[graham1ty] 20/5/2021 09:01

It must have been something material, and an actual threat of a leak. Otherwise, they would just have got on, in secret, preparing the massive profit warning (99% of Companies do not get a suspension ahead of a profit warning).

However, there had been no odd trading, suggesting the news had not leaked.

Alternatively, the discovery is so awful that they just cannot ring fence it, or give any meaningful description of the problem. Say massive fraud, or someone stolen some deposits. Whatever, they are probably in deep discussions with the Regulator and may be fighting to stop the banking license from getting suspended ?

Who knows ? But pretty grim

[cc2014] 20/5/2021 08:43

I'd say there is more going on than is immediately apparent.

PCF announce on 11th March "PCF Group plc announces that, subsequent to the Preliminary Results Announcement made on 9 December 2020, during the process of finalising the audit of its financial statements, for the year ended 30 September 2020, a number of adjustments will be made to the previously announced profit.

The adjustments are expected to constitute a net reduction of not more than £750,000 against a previously announced profit before impairment of goodwill and tax of £3.9m. The principle adjustments relate to the charging to the profit and loss previously capitalised costs for software projects, a reduction in an interest receivable balance from the Employee Benefit Trust and adjustments to accruals for interest due on stage 3 loans offset by lower staff incentive rewards."


That's 4 things they can't count although "principle adjustments" suggest there are more.

My guess is that the auditors are going through every single accrual and balance sheet account and demanding evidence and sadly the company can't provide it at speed, which tells me something about the underlying quality of the evidence.


Moving on as of 11th March they'd screwed up the accounts but only by £750k which is annoying but hardly material in the scheme of things. There must have been more to it than this though because 15 days later they can't get their accounts in on time and get an extension on AIM

Then something must have changed or come to a head because three weeks later (yesterday) they put out a very odd RNS at 7:30 giving no information and then 3 hours later are probably forced by the number of phone calls to put out another. Perhaps it didn't go down that way. Perhaps it's a particular issue and they spent 3 hours trying to understand the extent of the problem or trying to find a form of words to soothe the market. However, what the RNS didn't say was there was a boundary around the problem or explain much at all really. We can speculate on this but my view is that whatever issue it is something they were not prepared for and is not something they can easily put a boundary around. i.e. it didn't say "we have further accounting issues but the maximum impact on the P&L is £x".


I have one last observation. I was always puzzled why PCF was on AIM. I get why it started on AIM, I get why it was on AIM 2 years ago, but I never got why it didn't move to a full listing within 6 months of getting the banking licence. Perhaps just a conincidence.


Why is it that accountants can't count?

[graham1ty] 20/5/2021 08:41

The Stock Exchange hates suspending companies, and likes Mr Market to be able to work. At present shareholders are locked in.

They will will push for as complete a statement as can be made, as quickly as possible, then let the market decide whether this falls 10% or 50%. It is depressing that even after 24 hours the Board cannot put out something explaining broadly what has gone wrong, and how long it will take to get to the bottom of it. The Stock Exchange will have been loath to extend the suspension.....

[dandigirl] 20/5/2021 07:52

Given the amount of time passed since this first started to come to light, this must be really serious stuff going back years. Hope they come clean soon. At best a charge in numbers, at worst a capital raise. Come on Mr Maybury, put us out of our misery.

The ironic thing is that the used car market is in good shape. This is a huge distraction. Understatement.

[bdroop] 19/5/2021 17:15

I sold half my holding a couple of weeks ago, due to some sense of unease, rather than anything exact I could put my finger on. Downsized exposure. Mainly lack of news update and changes in management, difficulty with accounts etc., but not really expecting the problem we are now presented with. I wonder what the majority share ownership thinks of it all and what they will now do.. galling.

[geraldus] 19/5/2021 14:59

Makes you wonder if it is concerning Azule.Must admit I always looked at this as one of my safer holdings.ST will have something to say.