Nanoco Share Discussion Threads

[syd777] 27/11/2016 02:00

Kuss yes ME has pointed the issue of Labour intensive costs and sees reduction coming forth in the near term,however the Runcorn facilities will need a rewrite at a cost which I can't predict.

[ih_169538] 26/11/2016 23:49

Agreed on most of what you said except for the comment that they were successful with batch.Batch is fine if you aren't considering how to mass produce otherwise it's labor intensive as can be seen in the Hansol plant line layout in earlier posts.

[kuss1] 26/11/2016 23:34

Batch supply is the only one functioning commercially. Unlikely Hansol will change their process or Samsung switch a successful arrangement as it's linked to their technology. QD vision was successful with a batch synthesis. It was cadmium and rail which was their undoing. We'll see who is supplying LG and the rest of the industry going forward. As I see it, the big players tightening the noose. Qd vision out, Nanosys on the ropes. The huge chemical manufacturers opting for tech from Nanoco. Remember there is still only one company with cad free tech in a product. That simply can't continue for much longer as the industry adapts.

[ih_169538] 26/11/2016 22:49

Buying QDV will not increase qd production for Samsung.As I stated earlier QDV were all about an end product.They thought let's make the carts ( displays ) first and figure out how to build a donkey farm ( mass quantum dots ) after when this takes off.The fact is the edge rail system took less qd than film does so they were in no hurry to figure how you ramp production.A friend asked Seth at a conference a few years back about how he would increase the amount of material he needed as the industry grew and his statement was " with bigger bottles ".Sort of sums it up.They were producing their cad dots using batch.

[ih_169538] 26/11/2016 22:49

Buying QDV will not increase qd production for Samsung.As I stated earlier QDV were all about an end product.They thought let's make the carts ( displays ) first and figure out how to build a donkey farm ( mass quantum dots ) after when this takes off.The fact is the edge rail system took less qd than film does so they were in no hurry to figure how you ramp production.A friend asked Seth at a conference a few years back about how he would increase the amount of material he needed as the industry grew and his statement was " with bigger bottles ".Sort of sums it up.They were producing their cad dots using batch.

[luxaeterna1] 26/11/2016 17:25

You make a good strategic point about Samsung buying qdv to increase production, in a tight supply market it's never good to see factory floors shut. It makes sense to buy the IP (mitigates future messy IP lawsuits as well with the new portfolio).

[kuss1] 26/11/2016 15:39

Some of the early patents are set to expire but there's the small matter of 20 years of development and expertise and the way those patents have fed into other patents. Playing catch-up is incredibly difficult in business given a 20-year lead.

Nanosys's battle against QD vision cites patent infringement from 2001 to 2014. Again, as I have mentioned, suing a bankrupt company doesn't make sense. Nanosys by implication are laying down a marker to Samsung and the rest of the industry. So now Samsung are effectively the defendants in the action. Does that mean Nanosys will withdraw their claim ... not on your nelly. They are fighting for survival. Manufacturing of cadmium dots is a dying industry. Despite the many claiming that Nanosys were selling cad free Qdots to Samsung, this has been proved incorrect. They don't. All they have is their patents and their technology. They are relatively new to cad free and Samsung have grabbed the indium phosphor solution first. Nanosys will be hard pressed to compete with cad free anytime soon.

It's also a mistake to think as Nanosys and QD vision have that you can be all things in the industry. A science centre, manufacturer, sales and marketing etc.. Not even Samsung have done that. SAIT do the science and Hansol the manufacturing. For that reason I'm not so pleased that Nano are trying to do the same. They are pulling staff from research to manufacturing etc.. Still this I hope is only short-term. Better to leave production to Dow and Merck. It's what they do. 30 million is nothing to them to build more capacity. Others will have to go into debt and/or raise money on onerous terms. QD vision is an example of this. Great science, no cash, wrong product = end!

Qdots are transforming display. There's no doubt about this. The industry must be quite disturbed with the success of the SUHD range. Even more with Samsung's push to Qled. This could signify the end of Oled. This will horrify LG. It's taken 15 years for them to sell 1 million TV's only to find their tech isn't up to scratch.

Even more disturbing for the big chemical companies who've spent billions on OLED and have no handle on Qdots. It's the reason Dow will persevere with Qdots and why Merck has been forced to accept its importance hence the tie up with Nano.

In an industry short of capacity Dow's plant will be called on soon. Someone is paying for those samples at an increasing rate. LG have already said they are introducing their own version of Qdot TV's soon. Finally, the buyout of QD vision has given an insight into value. The industry willing to pay up to 100 million for a company with no earnings and no cash. Nano 470 patents and 15 years of research cash positive. Must be worth 3-4 hundred million to someone.

[ih_169538] 26/11/2016 02:30

As far as QDV having something of value to allow Samsung to increase production there is nothing there.I had a chance meeting with QDV last year at CES and asked if they were ramping qd production.They said they made enough for theit own edge rail components but were not in the business of bulk manufacturing qd for sale which was cadmium anyways.Samsung are paying as you say for their QLED research which is

hxxp://www.qdvision.com/content1599

[ih_169538] 25/11/2016 23:55

Speaking of MIT patents the majority of them are set to expire in 18 months.What then?

[fil340] 25/11/2016 18:50

If Samsung don't take supply from Dow then LG get dibs on the whole lot. It would be a much smarter commercial play to take as much of Dow's output as possible, and expand their own range, leaving LG with as little as possible. We know from LG's admission, selling LCD TV's is where the profit is to be had, so why wouldn't they be pushing hard for a bit chunck of Dow's CFQD supply. All this assumes, as ever, that Dow's output is up to spec. Though on that note, ME is on the record as saying their dots are now 90% of rec. 2020 when paired with optimized filters. The last mystery is why all the silence, though apparently even the high-street retailers don't have any clue what is coming yet (suggesting something big, or so they say).

[kenirogas] 25/11/2016 18:05

Don't want to sound too pessimistic, but, to put the proverbial cat amongst...they have just increased their own production capacity, have they not, with the QDV purchase? They're licenced to use nanosys tech, so should get around any issues QDV had, and have access to the brains at Hansol to get the QDV plant up and running.
How long to production is another matter entirely, and one I wouldn't care to speculate on.
Thoughts?

[woody33] 25/11/2016 17:37

if Samsung were constrained by supply. i.e. only getting dots from Hansol, would they really be launching new, less mainstream products? Unless there is either a massive market for gaming monitors or its a high margin device of course !

Woody

[whum] 25/11/2016 14:26

syd good news, as it emphasises cfqd usage
even better would be nano's cfqd used
in the manufacture.

[syd777] 25/11/2016 11:59

Samsung releases its latest curved gaming monitor with QDs..

[kuss1] 25/11/2016 10:56

QD vision was in severe distress. They were forced to sell as their manufacturing plant was closed down and staffing dropped from 130 to 20. They could only do cadmium rail which couldn't even produce HDR levels of brightness. Samsung got it so cheaply in my view. Would have been interesting to see what the other bidders were willing to pay, probably more than 100 million, but that would mean stripping the company and closing it down, whereas Samsung probably appealed to the science promising to keep the business operational.

Maybe Samsung wanted some of the QD electro stuff, but I think they wanted those original patents, the ones disputed by Nanosys. So now nanosys are suing Samsung who is their main client and who has deep pockets and years of patent dispute experience and thousands of scientists to draw on. Not a pleasant thought for nanosys.

As for Dow, I have no doubt they can now produce in volume. What's holding them back is the application side; or rather, the fact that the other OEM's haven't got their products ready yet. Lot's of additional tech in those TV's to use cad free dots. I'm hoping LG have got there by now. Two years since their last failed attempt at a Qd TV.

But the others will get there soon enough. And with Samsung increasing its dominance there will be a huge demand for alternative supply. Hansol are not going to sell their Dots to anyone other than Sumsung for many years.

[luxaeterna1] 25/11/2016 10:33

Having a read of the QD Vision patents, several appear to be fundamental to QD-LED operation. One describes a method/process of layering conductors/QDs in order to deliver QD electroluminescence. That may explain why Samsung bought them if they have an eye on QD-LED development.

Nano seem to be far more focussed on the molecular seeding process, creation of QDs, solar applications. Far more emphasis on the "how to make" rather than "what to do with..".

Following a brief rummage around the Nanoco patents, I was highly surprised to see that Nanoco patented the use of QDs as a product for supplying preferred wavelengths of visible light in order to regulate natural Vitamin D production (for those of a non-biological persuasion, just like plants, the body uses sunlight to produce Vitamin D, that activates the immune system. A valuable patent maybe!

[whum] 25/11/2016 10:12

this has makings of another sell off day

[fil340] 25/11/2016 07:10

Interesting article showing yet another quality of graphene:

[syd777] 24/11/2016 22:34

We can't stop JP Morgan looking for an escape route hence the 48.50 finish and that was a 5 share trade sell.No panic before the AGM or CES 17 ;) hold tight.Short squeeze coming soon to this theatre.

[firminator1] 24/11/2016 22:17

Shame HL had it as a buy but sale make more sense...annoyingly

Come on Nanoco give us some good news soon

[andycapped] 24/11/2016 22:04

Showing on LSE as a sell. Which I wouldn't take as gospel, but bearing in mind the fall in price earlier in the day...

[firminator1] 24/11/2016 21:57

..there is a chance the 300k shares was a purchase

[kenirogas] 24/11/2016 21:43

Possible, but a one off 300k sell is one thing, even if it's the big H.---
3mil, or a sustained shedding of 300k lumps would be different. Ambivalent at the moment though, that nano haven't been crowing about the latest Dow royalty.

[andycapped] 24/11/2016 21:25

I wonder if the 300k sell will appear as an RNS in a day or two's time.

[mr.oz] 24/11/2016 19:16

Who will supply LGs upcoming QD TV, chaba?
Or do you think it's another myth