MWB Group Share Discussion Threads

[bonio10000] 16/11/2012 20:29

I forgot to add - doesn't MWB have a decent asset value based upon the freeholds it holds and the MBE stake?

Of course, an orderly sale of this to maximise values should present value for equity.

Of course, we know this won't happen, as they will sell it off quickly with no view to maximising value for anyone other than fees.

[bonio10000] 16/11/2012 20:26

RGU will probably buy the stake on the cheap now.

I would think there is unlikely to be anyone else who could affird/would want a 73% holding in MBE.

I would be interested to know what options the directors in MBE have and when they vest.

[scburbs] 16/11/2012 20:26

Pyrrho have been rather quiet of late. Most of their commentary has been entirely sensible.

[scburbs] 16/11/2012 20:21

If MWB has no ability to continue as a going concern without stripping cash from MBE then why didn't they sell MBE when Regus were buying which would have bought them years rather than months.

Directors don't appear to know what they are doing (or maybe they do? the concert parties here have always been close).

The key thing to watch for here is some related party attempting to strip out a business on the cheap.

Given the behaviour of the MBE directors during the takeover I suspect there is more here than meets the eye as the sudden development of a spine looks odd. Keep your eyes open for the puppetmaster.

[markt] 16/11/2012 17:58

MWB shareholders may want more regulation and control of directors

...interesting to see that Equity Development are fighting for less regulation
..interesting imo.

(the 500 GBP is imo a red herring. 2000 people subscribing 500 pounds is 1M pounds. Enough money to tempt some parts of the City to do underhand things !
and regulations are important to try to keep them under control imo)


Equity Development.

"One of the core suggestions in our Social Investment paper has been picked up in the recent House of Lords Debate of the Financial Services Bill, namely no regulation on sums under GBP 500 invested by individuals: not too much for them to lose should a start-up fail.

We believe that 'the crowd' is to be trusted to form its own view of small scale fundings and that it represents sufficient due diligence for that purpose."

[markt] 16/11/2012 17:44

Loan Notes
BTW...imho the loan note holders wont lose anything....or much....since they have already had their investment returned to them via the interest payments over a good number of years at around 10%

and in a wind up.... loan note holders would get paid before shareholders get a penny...
----

Hopefully the directors were/are in fact still large shareholders....and hadnt lent the shares to say IG Index....to then be sold short by their wives or some off shore company .....giving an overall result of 0 loss, or even a gain if you short sell more shares than you held.

Interesting, over at FIF, you could also have made a lot of money by shorting a company where an MWB non-exec. was on the board.....after it made a large acquisition at a ridiculously high price (imho) (orders of magnitude higher than the norm for the sector) saddling it with loads of debts
..and in that deal the chairman Lord Saatchi made millions, since he bailed out , and he benefitted by the acquisition price ratio being very high (imho). Not so long after....he left the company.

Perhaps the time to short MWB was when it paid out 3 pounds per share submitted for cancellation. (and maybe if that payment had not happened, would MWB still be afloat ?)

(MWB, MBE. Seemed intent on spending money...and more money (eg. Liberty, and more hotels and more refurbishments). Whether it made a return or a return higher than the cost of the money. Not sure if anyone was monitoring that !)

[markt] 16/11/2012 17:12

Another one for David Marshall , non-exec, to add to his list !!



(operating companies where he has been on the board after making a large investment, that have de-listed and then been wind up or sold to part pay off the creditors; also Sanctuary group, Doctors Direct since 2000)

3 out of 7 !!!!!!!!!

(FIF, NBI, CRE, and an unlisted company, still going)

43% company failure rate !

[markt] 16/11/2012 17:06

Each is a limited company, that produces its own accounts.
If that ltd company is viable then it keeps operating .......

but !!

I would assume that the creditors to the group will want to get their loans paid back......and if MWB group has no cash to do that...then the creditors will ask, "well what other assetts have you got ?"

and the creditors will see the subsidiaries.....which have a value of X.

Then I assume they have to negiotate.
At the end of the day I assume that the creditors have the right to claim the subsidiaries ...or some related transaction.

The shares held by MWB group in MBE are also an assett......so the creditors may ask to be given those shares as part of a settlement.
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imo the administrators of MWB can also control MBE if they want, MWB owns 75% of MBE

but I would assume that they would allow the MBE bod to keep running MBE, but with an instruction that any major decisions have to be approved first by the MWB administrators. For example the administrators would, imo, not allow MBE to take on new debts.
---

The administrators of MWB will I assume be controlling the bods of the hotel subsidiaries as well.

but if no instruction from the administrator ...then business as usual..

---
The accounts seem to indicate I think, that MWB assetts are higher than MWB debts....

but in the administration process we will imo learn more about the current market value of those assetts !!.....imho will be lower than the values given in the annual accounts...

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I'm not an accountant or company lawyer.....I'm just making common senses guesses...

[paddyloyd] 16/11/2012 13:37

I don't quite get how the subs continue but the group doesn't.

What happens to the "B" shares?

Any ideas?

[bonio10000] 14/11/2012 17:55

Screwed by a company you own.

Genius.

[sharw] 14/11/2012 11:34

Telegraph:

[markt] 13/11/2012 15:44

...I wonder if the directors leaving at MBE was forced by Pyrrho

if P. submitted any official complaints about the MBE bod rejecting an offer for MBE that was higher than the MBW offer

and maybe the dirs. have stepped down as a deal to avoid being processed for perhaps breaking the law,
just a guess...

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Sadly MBW and MBE appear to be in a bad position now ..lots of debt and interest costs..whether the new dirs. will be able to achieve a recovery from these bad positions...time will tell
--

David Marshall brought MWB to market I believe....and has sat on the board all these years....

also at Sanctuary Group which de-listed and was sold to pay down debts
and at Doctors Direct, same thing

I believe he brought them all to market. Looks like a bad record to me.

[bonio10000] 08/11/2012 07:59

Yep - it clearly needs over a week (never mind the 3 months preceeding it) to sort out an accounting issue.

How useless can you get.

Come on lads - put this dog down ffs.

[scburbs] 02/11/2012 09:24

The puppets have spoken, but who is pulling their strings?

[sabre6] 01/11/2012 19:03

Share temporly suspended

[bonio10000] 01/11/2012 09:36

I presume MWB could just call an EGM and sack the MBE board.

As you say, all very odd.

[scburbs] 31/10/2012 23:03

It would be rather ironic if MBE pushed MWB into insolvency after MBE directors acted like puppets during the proposed takeover.

[scburbs] 31/10/2012 23:00

These are the exactly the type of people to try and buy assets on the cheap. The MBE attempted takeover proves that. The rip-off is on the way?

[goliard] 31/10/2012 20:50

Amazing how value was destroyed here. Doubt we'll see a pre-pack here, too much outside interest. Looking forward to seeing who ends up with the assets.

[typo56] 31/10/2012 18:32

Looks like a zero for shareholders.

[bonio10000] 31/10/2012 17:48

Well - after the decision to announce as late as possible, no real surprise. If companies announce late and then delay till after hours, there is generally a reason.

Hopefully the loan stock gets wiped out with the equity so that the previous board get a shafting as well. From memory, they are both large shareholders and lenders.

What a share and what a board of directors.

[williamgtheobald] 31/10/2012 13:49

Guys the company has no money, forget their stupid ideas of expanding! They had to sell recently two restaurants below NBV just to get some working capital!

I'm predicting the worse and guessing the accounts will have 'going concern' written all over them.

Boniol0000 thanks for the above article, hope I haven't caused offence it wasn't my intention.

[bonio10000] 31/10/2012 12:04

Not going to be good then is it.

On a plus point, a nice article here. They certainly seem to still have plans, so perhaps not all lost if MBE can start throwing off some cash.