Lsl Property Services Share Discussion Threads

[m.t.glass] 30/5/2008 15:15

Jonno - you musta done summat truly horrid to get barred - not something i do lightly :-o

But I can't remember what it was so you are now unbarred ;o)


Incidentally, IG will take downbets on LSL, but only daily bets (by default they expire same day - but preferences can be altered so that daybets automatically roll over until you choose to close).

[theoriginalface] 30/5/2008 15:04

jonno - you can sell both of those with worldspreads.

[jonno1] 30/5/2008 15:01

well I see both LSL & RMV cannot be sold at IG

"This market may not be sold to open due to stock borrowing restrictions in the underlying market. Please call in if you require an explanation."

[m.t.glass] 30/5/2008 14:26

Jonno - other opportunities get logged on the Shorts (DOWN) thread

[jonno1] 30/5/2008 14:20

thanks, anyone else IYO in this field similar to this worth shorting?

[theoriginalface] 30/5/2008 14:20

sold some more just now, wish i'd sold more at £1.30, that's looking a long way off now!!

if housing market continues on this route lsl is heading for messy landing.

[m.t.glass] 30/5/2008 14:17

Listened to the whole interview. Pretty much the same as he ever says in interviews regarding his approach. I have previously had downbets on LSL and have been waiting for this week's little bounce to expire and go short again.

He does get things wrong sometimes - but unlike those who follow him into those, he can afford to lose the odd few hundred grand :-o

[jonno1] 30/5/2008 14:13

sorry , chaps, only came here because of the interview and curiosity, not a share I'd even heard of...
are most of you short here then? and agree with what he is saying?,or are you disagreeing... can't be bothered to read through everything... and has he posted here?, he usually does with shares he is shorting.

Its a interesting interview whether you agree with his views or not, worth a listen

[theoriginalface] 30/5/2008 13:48

yeah completely agree. a lot of intangibles in there, that are in current conditions pretty worthless.

[m.t.glass] 30/5/2008 13:45

Thanks for that link Jonno -

Here is a transcript of what he says about LSL (starts at 14 minutes in and runs for 75 seconds)



"..there are plenty of other property stocks which, one way or another, are
sitting around waiting to be thumped..

..At the moment I'm short of a little company called LSL Property. This is a really beautiful stock to be short of because err.. it's theoretically, wrong.... You go to the balance sheet and look at its trades, you now see they're going to have a dramatic drop in income, whereas their costs will be largely unchecked. Meanwhile the liabilities on the balance sheet greatly exceed tangible assetts, so the outlook for LSL seems to me to be pretty grim.

Now what's interesting about this, is that the management until very recently were buying more shares. And I don't know why they did, because they must have known at the time they made these purchases that things were stacking up in a very gloomy way. I think it can only be that there's a certain class of manager who thinks that his energy alone can suspend gravity. But it's hard otherwise to explain this sort of conduct. But anyway, I think that's an interesting short.."

[jonno1] 30/5/2008 12:29

I see Simon Caukwell is short of this big time, has he posted here?

He's interviewed here, and mentions it

[m.t.glass] 29/5/2008 11:12

UK house prices have recorded their largest monthly fall since 1991, says the Nationwide building society.

The Nationwide, the UK's second-largest lender, said price falls were now accelerating and had continued for seven months in a row. "The pace of house price falls accelerated in May as more weak economic news added to the gathering momentum of negative sentiment about the housing market," said Fionnuala Earley, the Nationwide's chief economist. "At seven months, this is also the longest consecutive period of monthly falls since 1992," she added.

In March, new mortgage approvals for home buyers were at their lowest since the Bank of England's records on the topic began back in 1993. And recently, estate agents have reported that falling prices have been at their most widespread across the UK since 1978.

After a boom lasting for more than a decade, house price inflation took a decisive turn downwards last autumn. The market collapsed under the twin impact of two pressures. Prices became so high that most first-time buyers were priced out of the market, and the effects of the credit crunch have dried up the supply of money for new mortgages.

Lenders are now expecting that fresh mortgage lending will shrink by about 40% this year, despite the efforts of the Bank of England to inject more money into the banking system. Ms Earley said that Nationwide was continuing to forecast single-digit house price falls during 2008.

But Howard Archer, chief UK economist at Global Insight, painted a gloomier picture for homeowners. "It now looks more likely than not that house prices will suffer double-digit falls both this year and in 2009," he said.

He said this was a result of serious buyer affordability constraints, limited and often more expensive mortgages available because of the continuing tight lending conditions, a deteriorating economic outlook, and reduced prospects for further interest rate cuts in the near term.

[m.t.glass] 29/5/2008 08:14

With no remaining lock-up or other ties, the company is under no obligation to mention whether or not he sells his other 100,000 shares.

[m.t.glass] 29/5/2008 08:10

LSL Property Services plc (the "Company"), announces that Donald MacLellan, who was previously a senior employee of the Company and as such was subject to the lock-up arrangements set out in the Company's prospectus (November 2006), has been released from the lock-up arrangement as he is retiring from the Company.

On 28 May, Donald MacLellan sold 271,850 ordinary shares of 0.2p each, representing 0.26 per cent of the ordinary share capital of the Company at a price of 83p per ordinary share.

Following the sale, Donald MacLellan, holds 100,000 shares representing 0.10 per cent of the ordinary share capital of the Company.

[m.t.glass] 23/5/2008 14:22

local Yorkshire news report:

LSL PROPERTY Services today became the latest company to be hit by a downturn in the housing market as it issued a profits warning in its estate agency division. The York-based group, which operates under the Your Move and Reeds Rains estate agency brands, also said it would tackle the "unprecedented" low levels of transactions in the residential property sector by reducing its cost base. It is understood that this will be achieved by closing branches and making redundancies


2:45pm EDIT: I see someone has since added a comment:

Estate agency staff will have sensed redundancies coming of course. The trouble now is that LSL is a stockmarket listed company, and investors have been fleeing long before today's official announcement. What investors also know from bitter experience, is that profit warnings tend to come in threes! The initial warning is usually worded as gently as it can be in the circumstances, outlining measures being taken to mitigate the impact of hostile market conditions, trying not to scare investors away altogether. Sadly there is invariably a second warning some weeks later in which the conditions are reported to have been even worse than first thought. LSL acknowledges that its estate agency division is suffering. It doesn't appear to fully acknowledge that some of its other services are heavily dependent on house sales, which we all know are drastically down and getting worse. I fear we might yet see redundancies way beyond those in the estate agency division.

Albert Winstanley

[chapchip] 23/5/2008 11:55

they are represented in my local area under the name of Inter County which has 5 or 6 offices, word is that staff rec'd letters staing redundancy was likely and they would know next week who was going and who was staying. LSL only brought this business within the last 6 months and paid out to acquire two independents in addition to the founding Inter County branches. great result for those selling, for LSL a load of money for no return.....well at this juncture anyway.

its the 80's all over where original founders of agencies sold out to big boys for big bucks and then brought them back for pennies after the big boys couldn t make it work!!!!!!!!

[m.t.glass] 23/5/2008 10:01

"..assuming it will sell 50 percent fewer homes over the year vs. 2007.."

(from the Numis broker note)

[theoriginalface] 23/5/2008 09:31

Well that warning was no suprise.

Notice they are forecasting no improvement in the housing market for 2008....that implies they are expecting improvements in the following years then......there are plenty out there who would disagree with that also.

The surveying side is presumably valuing housing for the purposes of re-mortgaging? Will this drop off at any point or is this fairly steady?

Also note - there is a lot of goodwill on their balance sheet relating to the estate agency business (i presume, as this was their before the surveying business was purchased). This will need impairing given the performance this year and closures.

[pictureframe] 23/5/2008 07:52

They have stated housing transactions have fallen so its only logical that the surveys will drop too. They are just trying to white wash over it.

I know for a fact that surveying work is beocoming scarce as I work in the housing market

[m.t.glass] 23/5/2008 07:44

They've said the surveying side is OK and their estate agencies are suffering - but they seem to have avoided aggregating those observations into an outlook for the company as a whole. Which presumably they would have done if it helped paint a positive picture - and from the absence of which we can perhaps infer it doesn't!

[pictureframe] 23/5/2008 07:37

pictureframe - 22 May'08 - 11:23 - 57 of 59 edit


The only thing keeping this company going is the surveying side, but check out the latest news from RICs they are predicting the worst housing market since records began. IMHO its only a matter of time before they warn



Not a bad prediction....should have followed my conviction and shorted this

[m.t.glass] 23/5/2008 07:25

RNS Number : 1349V
LSL Property Services
23 May 2008


For Immediate Release 23 May 2008


LSL Property Services plc

Trading Update


LSL Property Services plc, a leading provider of financial and surveying services and residential estate agency, issues the following update on current trading.

In our AGM update on trading for the first quarter of the current financial year, we reported that whilst we expected market conditions to remain very challenging for the remainder of the year we were more confident about the resilience of our surveying division results, which contribute an ever growing proportion of Group profits.

The Surveying division continues to perform strongly and above our expectations, supported by a robust re-mortgage market, last year's contract wins and strong relationships with lenders. As a consequence we remain confident of making further progress in surveying this year.

However, as has been widely reported, conditions in the housing market during the second quarter have deteriorated further and the current levels of housing transaction volumes are at an unprecedented low level. Trading in our Estate Agency division has been affected in line with the market and, as a result, we are now planning for a significantly weaker performance for the division in the current year.

We continue to take further action to reduce the cost base to reflect these lower activity levels, which to date will result in one off costs estimated at £3m with a payback in profitability terms in early 2009. We also continue to focus on the non transactional income streams including financial services, lettings and repossessions.

Recent measures taken by the Government and the Bank of England both to help first time buyers and to ease the liquidity crisis are welcome. It is too early to predict whether or not these initiatives alone will have a marked effect but other limited measures remain available to further stimulate the UK housing market. The Group has not factored in any upturn in the market for the remainder of 2008.



For further information please contact:

Simon Embley, Group Chief Executive Officer
Dean Fielding, Group Finance Director
LSL Property Services plc 01904 715 324

Richard Darby or Nicola Cronk
Buchanan Communications 020 7466 5000

This information is provided by RNS
The company news service from the London Stock Exchange

END