Lsl Property Services Share Discussion Threads

[domwilliams] 05/3/2009 15:31

Astounding! No earnings yet on the move after those results. Shorts closing?

[theoriginalface] 04/3/2009 10:22

David - good spot, didn't see that when I scanned through.

The interesting thing about the surveying nos is that although they hold them up as the saviour of LSL and as increasing on the prior year, when you compare LFL and strip out the acquisitions effect made halfway through the prior year they are actually down....and they are taking a massive annual hit to amortisation for these acquired contracts.

[davidosh] 04/3/2009 10:01

This bit was interesting lurking in the Surveying division review...

In line with the deterioration in the UK housing market, the Board has decided
that it is appropriate to make a one off exceptional increase in its provisions
of GBP2m to take account of the increase in the number of recovery claims made
and likely to be made for inaccurate valuations.

[simon cawkwell] 04/3/2009 09:47

Gentlemen,

theoriginalface is surely right to remark upon the astonishing indifference to the need to write down intangibles. Comment on current trading is so pauce as to be useless. I cannot see how this stock is valued above 10p. The share price is clearly rigged. But gravity always outs eventually.....

Simon Cawkwell

[theoriginalface] 04/3/2009 09:40

Interesting results.

They managed to get away with an impairment of £1.1m on financial services, given the performance of their estate agency business this year I am staggered that any auditor has signed off their remaining intangibles without further write-offs. Budgets for the next year or two are highly subjective at present.

Their revolving credit has been renewed, but reduced from £95m to £75m.

Net assets at just over £30m, when intangibles are discounted these are negative.

[domwilliams] 03/3/2009 10:09

LSL is on an historic P/E of 4, based upon the 2007 EPS of 15.8p. At the interim stage, EPS was -0.6p (compared to 8p previously) so if a full-year loss is reported tomorrow, there will be no PER.

All eyes tomorrow on Profit/(loss) for the year, and the balance sheet.

From the interims:

Balance Sheet

Net assets as at 30 June 2008 were £38.0m, a reduction of £4.9m from the previous year end. Net debt as at 30 June 2008 was £61.7m, an increase of £13m from the previous year end. The Group has a borrowing facility of £95m in place until July 2010, of which £36.9m was undrawn at 30 June 2008.

There's not a lot of headroom to play with there, so costcutting measures introduced are vital to LSL's ongoing viabiity. Another number to look out for will be the amortisation of intangibles, as theoriginalface points out above.

[domwilliams] 03/3/2009 09:58

Agreed - if LSL made a loss at the interim stage then they must have had a terrible second half, with a call upon financing to see them through.

A reminder of what was said in the November update:

Turnover for the ten months ended 31 October 2008 compared with the same period in 2007 was as follows:

* Group turnover for the period was down by 22.4%
* Surveying turnover was down by 6.4%
* Estate Agency and Financial Services turnover was down by 33.3%

Outlook:

The Group is well capitalised, with committed bank facilities until July 2011. It continues to demonstrate an encouraging level of resilience in the face of extremely challenging market conditions, and as a consequence the Board is confident that it will meet its full year expectations. The growth of the lettings and asset management businesses has helped to mitigate reductions elsewhere within the Group.

The Board expects existing market conditions to persist for the remainder of 2008 and is not planning for any recovery in 2009. Whilst there are some limited signs that the more recent Government intervention and Bank of England actions are having a stabilising effect on the sector, the timing of any market recovery remains difficult to predict.

Longer term, the Group is well placed to deliver significant growth and benefit from the sizeable cost reduction measures implemented during 2008, once market conditions improve.

[theoriginalface] 03/3/2009 09:43

Yes debt is a problem - £62m at interims up from £48 at last year end.

I expect LSL to be loss making for the year, I would be especially interested to see how they've managed / fudged their way through intangible impairments, due to the massive amount of intangibles on their balance sheet.

Given its financial performance I would expect its balance sheet to undergo scrutiny, this is awful, with high gearing and very few tangible assets to support the market cap.

[davidosh] 03/3/2009 09:29

It is not the £66m that is the problem it is all the debt added to it that causes the headache with losses mounting..

[madbadtrader] 02/3/2009 20:39

Thinking of opening another short tomorrow before results on Wednesday, what do you guys think?

[ted hankey] 03/2/2009 15:54

This is just quackers, imo.

[domwilliams] 03/2/2009 15:54

So, results are due to be released 4 weeks tomorrow, on 4th March, a week behind last year's schedule.

In the meantime, just noticed this from Estate Agency News - LSL closed 18% of their offices during 2008:

THE top 10 estate agency groups in the UK slashed their office numbers by more than an eighth during 2008.

That is the stark statistic revealed by our exclusive annual League Table focusing on the branch number of the country's estate agency groups during the calendar year just ended.

The 399 branches closed by the leading 10 groups between them last year represented 12.7 per cent of their previous complement of offices.

Countrywide again lead the table, for the 15th year running, with a total of 1,104 offices, down 72 on the start of 2008.

But the biggest closure totals were made by the Halifax, with 84, and LSL Property Services - parent company of Your Move and Reeds Rains - with 82.



Top 50 League Table -

[theoriginalface] 27/1/2009 08:25

so they have until the end of april then?

last year there was a trading update on 3/1 and results were 28/2. They'll know what their trading performance was already so can assume any good news and they would have released a statement similar to last year. If the results are any later than last year then can assume that there is something really amiss imo....such as a squabble with the auditors/banks etc.

[domwilliams] 26/1/2009 17:55

A company must issue a statement immediately if the information is significant, though the company can delay publication (of financial viability) if to do so would jeopardise existing shareholders' interests (DTR 2.5.3R).

DTR 2.5.3 R (1) does not allow an issuer to delay public disclosure of the fact that it is in financial difficulty or of its worsening financial condition and is limited to the fact or substance of the negotiations to deal with such a situation. An issuer cannot delay disclosure of inside information on the basis that its position in subsequent negotiations to deal with the situation will be jeopardised by the disclosure of its financial condition.

Per DTR 4.1.3R, an issuer must make public its annual financial report at the latest four months after the end of each financial year.

[davidosh] 26/1/2009 17:27

What is the latest date that a statement can be released ?

[theoriginalface] 26/1/2009 15:23

exactly dom, at which point the balance sheet and net assets become all important, and then you realise that the total net assets (£38m last june) are comprised of intangibles and goodwill (£100m last june, which i imagine now are significantly overvalued...and if the auditors do their jobs will be impaired....)

[domwilliams] 20/1/2009 15:03

That's more like it ! (someone must have seen the trading update)

[theoriginalface] 16/1/2009 14:51

looks like its snowballing now.

[theoriginalface] 16/1/2009 11:11

Must be delaying the statement as long as possible, if they had any good news they would release it now. Still massively overvalued imo.

[davidosh] 16/1/2009 11:06

So no trading update yet but lots of shares being sold this morning and a large fall looks ominous to me !!

[domwilliams] 13/1/2009 10:43

I'm loath to post because everytime I do the price goes up! But here goes...

House sales 'at lowest levels for 30 years'

The housing market slowed to a virtual halt at the end of last year as the number of properties sold reached a record low, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) said. It blamed the lack of mortgage finance for the lowest transaction levels in 30 years.

Surveyors reported that potential buyers, including first-timers, had been unable to take advantage of falling house prices because lenders would not grant home loans at affordable interest rates to any but the most cash-rich investors.



-------------

I suspect LSL won't be issuing a Trading Update as they did in early-January last year, so we must wait until the Final Results are issued. Last year they issued them on 27 Feb, but I believe that they have 4 months to release them. Can anyone confirm this timeline? Short of waiting for a turnaround in property transactions to prop up the SP, there is no reason to delay their release much beyond the two-month period they took last year.

[domwilliams] 09/1/2009 12:52

Missed this news from yesterday. Foxtons has breached its banking covenant ratios for debt against no-doubt reduced earnings and its interest-cover by those earnings.

One would imagine that LSL are in broadly similar territory.

[theoriginalface] 09/1/2009 09:49

dom - not seen that before. The guy sounds pretty disreputable on the whole doesn't he!!