Kinovo Share Discussion Threads

[1divad] 14/7/2022 15:01

Totally agree with nico has always been extremely under valued, core bus still very strong once DCB is sorted this should be 60/80p

[nico115] 14/7/2022 14:39

As long as Dcb is capped at say 5m I still think this is worth more than 60pLook at the core bus

[qs99] 14/7/2022 08:28

agreed snooty, the recent buying suggests IMO there is a way out of this. Market cap is rising again but ridiculously low when set against EBITDA and current debt number.

Any future settlement should have be able to be funded or let failed business go bust and fight the court case for years! Reputationally not a great option, but it may be the underlying threat that gets them off the hook regarding big liabilities. Let's see....could easily see this heading back to 20p+ given the continued buying in a tightly held share DYOR!

[sooty snipes] 14/7/2022 08:20

I tend to invest over the long-term so wouldn't be supportive of a quick buck sale. The core business is worth many times today's price in my opinion

[darryn1] 14/7/2022 07:26

Well Nico has a substantial investment here which is obviously at risk. However, in my view, the best solution for shareholders would probably be if the core business was acquired by a larger company in this sector once the DCB black hole has finally been identified. That would also overcome any future management issues too.

[sooty snipes] 13/7/2022 22:57

"He has done an excellent job apart from DCB"
============
Nico, you said it. Instead of us being at 60p we are at 15.75p DCB is one hell of a clanger. It's a bit of a stretch for me to support someone who has had his pants taken down so easily. Without an explanation as to why we entered into such a poor deal I remain unconvinced Bullen deserves support of myself
and other shareholders.

[1bond] 13/7/2022 21:52

Be prepared to be gutted

[nico115] 13/7/2022 21:41

He has done an excellent job apart from Dcb and I think he will get pbt up to 7m I would be gutted to see him go .

[patsc100] 13/7/2022 21:36

Before Bullen, the company was a whole fraud and fully mismanaged.

[1bond] 13/7/2022 21:21

Before Bullen the company had a turnover of £78m making £6.2m. What's he done since joining? Govt contracts were 3 to 5 years so walked into a good business which he had zero experience. This is the tip of the iceberg for the directors failures and their fiduciary duties

[1bond] 13/7/2022 21:06

Perhaps Bullen has already checked out !!!

[sooty snipes] 13/7/2022 20:58

Bond you say why offer a PG? I'm pretty certain in the sale of construction companies there has to be a parental guarantee. That's why its important to do due diligence. Nico you say we would be at 60p if not for this hiccup? Well in that case Bullen has cost investors a hell of a lot of money by selling to people who clearly were not suitable. Hence without a good explanation he should fall on his sword along with others involved. Good luck all Sooty

[topvest] 13/7/2022 20:54

Good attempt by management in the RNS to put a positive spin on things, but it shouldn't really fool anyone. They have a massive black hole in terms of finishing these contracts. No attempt to quantify. A total disaster.

[nico115] 13/7/2022 20:37

I think he's doing an excellent job with the core business.I wouldn't want him to leave.

[1bond] 13/7/2022 20:27

Why offer a PG in the first place. Why hide it from the market and not announce the details breaking disclose rules. Why the failure to do any due dilligence Anyone that thinks Bullen is doing a good job is clearly deluded.

[sooty snipes] 13/7/2022 19:15

"the inept directors decided to become a creditor naively forcing the position"
===========================

I don't think they had a choice given that 3.7 million had disappeared in just a few months. Did you expect them to fund these dudes at (DCB) indefinitely? I would just love to know what the bloody hell as gone on to create such a fiasco. Unless Bullen can come up with a logical excuse I agree he should walk the plank along with whoever else was responsible for selling to such an unsuitable outfit. I'm just glad the core business is so good. Nico says we would have been at circa 60p if not for this mess. Bullen needs to explain what the bloody hell as gone on here. Although I realise there will be legal issues at play here now.

[1bond] 13/7/2022 17:24

Directors are responsible and are probably liable for misleading the market with the lack of disclosure over the PG'S. DCB was forced into administration because the inept directors decided to become a creditor naively forcing the position. As for Bullen, achieved nothing at Kinovo, the main business was always good. Call Bullen and you won't get a response which tells you everything!!

[nico115] 13/7/2022 16:55

Maybe because he has done such a good Job with the core bus.I certainly wouldn't want him to leave.

[ddt sprite] 13/7/2022 16:43

As much as I want to put blame on the purchasers of DCB, they are not accountable to Kinovo share holders. The "game" that they may or may not have played, "honest" or "dishonest" as it would appear is not something that kino shareholders can expect them to account to us for. The names involved with the MCG business are, as has previously been pointed out, worrying to say the least and their involvement was known prior to the sale concluding. Alarm bells should have been ringing.

The position that Kino now find itself in was completely avoidable with even a small amount of forethought. The announcement when the details of the sale were agreed indicate that payments to Kino would fall due if DCB returned to a level of profitability within a short time period, levels of profitability that I'm not sure they ever achieved prior to the sale or anytime in its 20+ years existence. Effectively pie in the sky targets which were presented as feasible by the Kino board.

Dave Bullen (& his team) have to take responsibility for the mess that the company and [we] share holders find ourselves in, responsibility which they seems to be hiding from. The CEO & board of directors are accountable to the share holders and the responsibility lays completely in their laps. I am amazed that heads have not rolled for this. It is embarrassing that he (Dave Bullen) remains in his position.

[sooty snipes] 13/7/2022 15:07

I agree regards due diligence. You didn't need to be Einstein to find out MCG Global had only been incorporated a few months before purchase. Some of the names that have been bandied about on this thread leads me to believe some kind of deception could have taken place. One name in particular rings alarm bells to me. Having said that was Bullen so naive and wet behind the ears to fall for it? Could be in his haste to offload DCB he did. It's such a shame because the core business is doing so well.

[darryn1] 13/7/2022 14:47

sooty - I'm not criticising the working capital aspect of the disposal deal per se. What I am criticising is the apparent failure to undertake proper DD on the purchaser particularly where such significant capital sums were at risk. It could not have been hard to discover that MCG was a start up with virtually no capital or assets and therefore relying upon them to complete the contracts and repay the loans was a high risk factor. In addition, why was there no mention of the outstanding working capital issue in the disposal announcement in January. Who do you think is accountable for those two issues at Kinovo?

[sooty snipes] 13/7/2022 14:38

From what I understand it's not unusual in the sale of construction companies for working capital to be left in to fund unfinished projects. I may stand corrected of course.

[darryn1] 13/7/2022 14:20

So if it is 'utter tripe' pray tell us who you hold responsible for making the deal with MCG. Apart from negotiating the terms of any deal, it is also the responsibility of the CEO to ensure that the necessary due diligence is done on the purchaser. In this case it was even more important since Kinovo was leaving nearly £4m of invested capital in place and relying upon the new owners to complete the outstanding contractors in order to repay Kinovo. This money is now gone with probably a further million or more on top. So who do you hold accountable at Kinovo for approving this deal - the janitor?

[gerry pacemaker] 13/7/2022 13:48

Forgive me for saying this but what you are saying is utter tripe. Up until this DCB fiasco Bullen was doing a superb job. Until we know the ins and out of all this I reserve judgement. In my opinion we have been conned by certain people that I would rather not mention. I agree with one thing we won't get a penny out of the perpetrators but that was more or less said in the last RNS.

[darryn1] 13/7/2022 13:18

I think that you're right kinwah. The DCB sale was a dreadful deal and MCG was a start up with virtually no capital. DCB went into administration only 4 months after it was sold with Kinovo the main creditor. This will result in the loss of millions of pounds, as yet still unquantified. The progress made in the core business has been undone by the DCB fiasco.

If there is any legitimate claim against MCG then you can forget it. They have no money or assets so pursuing them will just be a costly waste of time. Nobody knows what the final blackhole will be at this stage but they will almost certainly need to go back to the market for a fundraising to plug the gap. Will investors be prepared to back Bullen who must be accountable for the DCB situation? Such a terrible mistake must raise credibility issues regarding his competence.

Probably the best solution for shareholders would be to see Kinovo taken over by one of the larger players in this sector once the DCB write off can finally be quantified.