Kier Share Discussion Threads

[alexisk] 30/11/2018 15:05

also the reason for shorting -- the debt -- has gone

[alexisk] 30/11/2018 15:04

Won't those who have lent their shares to the shorters need to demand the shares back in order to benefit from the rights?

[welsheagle] 30/11/2018 15:04

Can shareholders buy at 409p.

[zicopele] 30/11/2018 15:00

Why would they have to buy? The market will be flooded with cheap shares.

[alexisk] 30/11/2018 14:53

33 for 50 rights issue at 409p per share. Looks like dividend for 2019 will be heavily reduced as well.

all seems quite sensible and aimed to get rid of the debt

Current trading and outlook for FY19 remain in line with the Board's expectations

shorts are going to have to buy back and so share price should now rise?

[zicopele] 30/11/2018 14:51

Looks like the shorts have done their worst. The share will fall to 400p fairly quickly now. Not a bad buy circa 400p but will have to cut dividend.

[essentialinvestor] 30/11/2018 14:47

Just for clarification, I've never gone short on any stock.

[essentialinvestor] 30/11/2018 14:44

From yesterday's FT -

You do need to beware those taking their own book!, But might to worth a read.

[minerve] 30/11/2018 14:44

Yes, I have. A good thing and no surprise IMO. Should see the end to the shorting scum.

[zicopele] 30/11/2018 14:43

By orderly decline...filton wants to be the first one out.

[jonwig] 30/11/2018 14:42

fitton - a problem with your "orderly decline" theory is that buyers will be attracted by the apparent cheapness of the shares and be unaware of their ultimate fate!

Regarding disclosure, I understand that all short positions over 0.5% (?) have to be declared to the FCA, which has a list of these short positions. If the company had to declare this to its shareholders, that would be very useful; after all, significant long poisitions have to be declared.

Of course, the short position here might have been purely a bet on the rights issue and be closing already! (They had one in 2015, so they've got form!)

[alexisk] 30/11/2018 14:41

Has anyone noticed a rights issue has been announced?

[essentialinvestor] 30/11/2018 14:25

You could look at that a completely different way - as an early warning sign.
Doing a favour to those who heed it

[jonwig] 30/11/2018 14:20

Immediate profit for the short sellers then!

[bscuit] 30/11/2018 14:06

A major [?[ problem is that the joint and several [?] liability from Aberdeen by-pass isn't resolved - certainly the road's not finished.

[8w] 30/11/2018 13:21

ZP.... too much drama there. Don't hyperventilate

[zicopele] 30/11/2018 13:15

8w...they need to cut dividend and fast. But that means the chief exec and finance director will probably have to go.

Finance raising will take place at deep discount. Goodbye equity of existing shareholders.

[fitton] 30/11/2018 12:59

Shorting is the skurge of the market.Under normal market conditions, if someone likes a company they buy shares, if you already own shares in a company you can sell them.Hedge funds with big pockets sell shares they don't own at a fraction of the cost of owning them.More often than not its the private investor that get shafted because the Hegde funds keep selling into the market and in the absence of lots of buyers taking up the slack the share price is forced down.It's only when the company releases very good news and buyers flood into the market,then the situation can reversed.There is not a single sensible arguement that can be used if private investors are involved.
What should happen is, once a company such as Kier starts to be attacked by the shorters, then private individuals should be stopped from buying shares in that company.The fsa should be sued for allowing investors into situations like Kier.They go on about rules and regulations, making sure finance companies are regulated, then they allow private investors, many not really understaning how shorting works, to buy into the same companies that hedge funds are involved in.Absolutley crazy

[minerve] 30/11/2018 12:38

zicopele 30 Nov '18 - 12:26 - 1074 of 1075

"Why are shorters scum?

They are necessary to ensure the market operates efficiently. If they are wrong,they lose money."

They aren't necessary at all. That, quite frankly, is BS created by those with a vested interest in shorting. Shares will be sold regardless of whether shorters are there or not. So market efficiency - if you believe that it exists - already exists without shorters.

By-the-way, most on ADVFN who 'short' are not shorters. They don't truly short. They are just spread-betters. That is different altogether because their actions on the secondary market are negligible if not zero.

[8w] 30/11/2018 12:29

As the FT pointed out presented at SOHN are talking up their own book. It is a good platform to make promises self fulfilling. There was no new information in the presentation, I am amazed it has had such a negative effect. However while Kier is no Carillion there are problems which will need to addressed otherwise there could be a messy ending.
So equity raise, that window of opportunity is rapidly closing, Divi cut more likely and possibly the best thing in the long term?

[zicopele] 30/11/2018 12:26

Why are shorters scum?

They are necessary to ensure the market operates efficiently. If they are wrong,they lose money.