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[grannyboy] 06/12/2018 15:44

Toople(TOOP) could be one to do some research on..

[serratia] 06/12/2018 13:59

Pendragon,

You could investigate VRS. Any questions just ask.

[grannyboy] 06/12/2018 13:47

As we know, being concerned for citizens and business comes way down the list to the gangsters in brussels...Top of the list is the ideology..then it's the welfare of the head honcho's like Drunckard ..Tusk...Verhofstadt..et al. And ALL those who previously rode the gravytrain, and continue to do so..

[pendragon2] 06/12/2018 13:09

b & y - thanks your comments, yes, me Berlin.

The reason I described the deal as stupid is that it completely ignores the interests of European organisations and businesses active in the UK.

Worst case is Airbus Industries, who depend on the UK for their wings, undercarriages and engines.
At another level: Vattenfall (sweden), EdF (France), BMW (DE), O2/Telefonic (ESP), DB Schenker (DE), etc, etc.

Most vulnerable to disaster soon after no deal Brexit day: Deutsche Bank, who could be asked to bolster their capital by a few Billion in the UK to continue doing business in London and they are teetering on the brink, so raising new capital is a tricky issue.

Other finance companies who could be hit with renewed capital requirements to sustain their licences: Santander, Allianz Insurance etc etc.

Were I an EU CEO I would be livid with the way the negotiations have been handled.

[jailbird] 06/12/2018 08:26

For Ppl like myself who do not know what WTO means in layman's terms http://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/What-would-trading-on-WTO-terms-mean.pdf

[yieldhunter] 06/12/2018 07:26

Yes an excellent, well considered post. Jazza why did you feel the need to follow it with such a vapid rejoinder? You really should be ashamed of yourself.

[brucie5] 06/12/2018 07:21

Well, Pendragon, I have to say that's the best written post I've yet read from a brexiteer perspective, thank you. You've given me much to think about. Let me mull over it a while. Do you live in Berlin?

Bluster, yes I do agree with the basic problem, and the reaction of the less nuanced brexiteers. It was always going to be like this, and for likes of Liam fox and Andrea leadsome to have suggested an a la carte brexit was remarkably dishonest, or stupid.

[blusteradjuster] 06/12/2018 06:56

UK - We’re leaving your club.
EU - OK, but don’t expect us to make it easy for you.
UK - That’s typical of you, no wonder we’re leaving!


From their point of view, what’s stupid about the deal?

We voted to Leave them - action and reaction.

The arrogant, delusional stupidity is all with the Brexiteers.


“There seems to be very little recognition of the EU's attitude to the Brexit and the incredible stupidity of the deal they have driven.”

[bmnsa] 05/12/2018 20:53

Longer than the EU crack house where the brain dead live.

[brucie5] 05/12/2018 19:20

Taurus:
'The rest is all future conjecture. Spin and fear mongering..'

So tell us: still gonna have your cake and eat it,? Still the easiest trade deal in history?

We bought all that nonsense last time.

No bull.

[alphorn] 05/12/2018 18:14

How long will the WTO house stay standing. That is a question.

[grannyboy] 05/12/2018 16:50

"Hard Brexit is idiotic nonsense, like moving out of your house before you've found a new one."

WE DID HAVE A NEW HOUSE TO MOVE INTO.....THE WTO HOUSE...WHICH IF WE'D HAD A TRUE BREXITEER RUNNING THE SHOW, THAT'S WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED STRAIGHT AFTER THE REFERENDUM!!!!!!!

[nametrade] 05/12/2018 16:40

John Redwood's speech in parliament today is the most sense talked in a long while.

[zangdook] 05/12/2018 14:56

Hard brexit, Theresa's brexit, no brexit.Referendum question should be theresa or remain. The first ref said leave, with no details. They've worked out the details (well, sort of). Now vote on it. Is that what you wanted, now you see what it means? Hard Brexit is idiotic nonsense. Like moving out of your house before you've found a new one. Just idiotic.

[taurusthebear] 05/12/2018 14:48

Greece wanting to remain in the EU is no defence for them actually being allowed to stay. Germany still owes them for war reparations.

The rest is all future conjecture. Spin and fear-mongering drives the EU debate, not analysis of current realities.

Even though this 'debate' has been going on for over two years, I don't have time to expand. :0)

[brucie5] 05/12/2018 14:24

You raise lots of reasonable points, Pendragon. I don't have time to answer them all, except to make two particular and one general observation.
1. On question of Greece, it is to the shame of the EU in general and Germany in particular that this country hardly renown for its incorruptibility, was allowed in on basis of false accounting. But ask the majority of Greeks, and Varoufakis himself if they wish to leave the EU and the answer is no. Because the economy would implode as cure would kill the patient.
2. Agency workers , including EU nationals in the UK on zero hours are a function of of own structural decisions, as are so many economic ills besetting European societies, and therefore it's a somewhat false premise to blame it on the EU. The brexiteer dream of UK as offshore tax haven with low regulation economy will only worsen this aspect of life for working and middle classes. They also dream, like MT, of privatising the NHS, which may actually be an implication, if not a condition of any bilateral trade deal with Uncle Sam. That's not what I want for my kids, thank you.
3. The democratic deficit is an aspect of any comprehensive trade and customs deal. We already had an opt out of 'Ever closer union's, not to mention Schengen and the Euro. As to fishing, it represents just 1 per cent of our economy, and somewhat neglects the fact that we export most of our catch, particularly of mackerel right back to the EU! Again, any bilateral with the US would see things happen that you in all likelihood neither wanted nor voted for, and to be sure, Uncle Sam will see us coming and have the big whip hand.

The above also neglects the countless unintended consequences like breakup of our Union. A price worth paying? To become the rump of what was once a great nation? You tell me.

[pendragon2] 05/12/2018 02:59

Brucie - have a chat with a Greek doctor and they will tell you about their colleagues being forced to accept salary cuts by the troika and furthermore explain that there are huge shortages of pharmaceutical products in Greek hospitals, because the EU 'rescue' funds have been passed to German banks and the government is still broke. Don't get sick while you're in Greece because the medics will suggest you are flown home rather than try to get treatment locally as the medical system can't cope. Ask the pensioners who have no medical insurance and can't pay their rent because of cuts to the state pension.

Ask about the prevalence of 'agency' workers which mean that VW workers in Duisberg are losing their jobs. For the EU, 'employment rights' are about the employers' interests not about protecting employees from the unscrupulous - ask the Romanian temporary workers on UK farms. Ask why VW have stopped building new works in Germany but prefer low wage Slovakia (as do Jaguar LandRover). Ask the remainers who point to EU funded projects in Ebbw Vale as examples to support membership, why that small town has made contributions to EU budgets via taxation which are about twice the level of the funding they have received.

There are dozens of examples. In the UK, ask why there is no longer a fishing industry in Grimsby, or Hull - or why the steel industry on Teesside which had the UK's most modern blastfurnace has folded because of limitations on 'state aid' imposed by the EU Competition rules; while regional policy allowed funding for works in Eastern Europe, but not in the UK.

But the real point is that national governments are being turned into regional administrators implementing policies defined in Brussels and the Council of Ministers, (European Council) system, where you and everyone else have no say whatsoever. You can't pretend to hold a Minister to account for a policy defined where they were only one voice in a committee of 28. EU political debate mainly consists of rubber stamping packages of decisions arrived at behind closed doors. Better that decisions are made locally.

Important also to ask what level of competence is fed into the EU by its smaller member countries, most of which have populations under 10million, yet still feed the EU machine with career people, (and the European court with judges), many of whom wouldn't get beyond regional admin jobs in the UK, or even more so in Germany. There has been a huge crisis in Germany, where the major parties have lost their place with most voters, mainly because the policies to be put in place bear no relation to the kinds of problems people recognise in their own daily lives. The disempowering effect of the EU is a major factor in that process and one that has fostered the growth of the far right protest vote, which I deplore, including Ukip in the UK, who seem to be revealing themselves as one of what I consider the Nasty Party.

[jtcod] 04/12/2018 23:06

SerratiaI emailed the company earlier today to ask that very same question. Would love to demo them at home

[swiss paul] 04/12/2018 21:35

well if your happy for some countries in the EU to cut their own deals behind closed doors i.e. Gazprom and the Germans well you can join the club.
That is because they know their defence is so weak - they cant even field a battle group at the moment

[serratia] 04/12/2018 21:31

JTC,

Has it come to the UK ? I passed the link on to our local hifi dealer and he's very interested.

[7kiwi] 04/12/2018 21:01

Wow. Dow down nearly 800 points today.

10 yr Treasuries under 3%

[alphorn] 04/12/2018 15:59

Pendragon - well written.
I won't write a long post as pretty exhausted by the unpleasantness on some other threads. There are two areas that you mention that I would pick up:
1) Reform of the EU, or I prefer to go for evolution. I don't agree at all that it has to be disbanded but they have to have a serious debate as to how it can change/evolve over time. No business or enterprise can remain static.
2) The issue of European (geographic) defence does need attention. NATO may well have passed its sell by date. This is a subject that you can ask the people - what level of defence do you want? It needs addressing with the rise of the power blocks China, Russia and USA.


What is not helpful to anybody is the complete mess today. I was just catching up on the contempt debate - what a situation to get into!