Jarvis Share Discussion Threads

[yuka] 27/4/2011 10:01

How much are share certificates worth as wallpaper?

[hightech] 26/4/2011 20:10

How much is it going to worth if/when back to life?

[srpactive] 17/3/2011 14:29

Nice if we do a txo, coming out of suspension..

dyor

regards

active

[r0l0b0l0] 07/2/2011 09:00

Anyone for a nice game of chess?

[muckshifter] 12/1/2011 08:00

Until HMRC put up the notice, that is. So if you have gains to offset best thing is to "sell" the appropriate amount of JRVS each time you have a tax year end opportunity.
Pleased to have helped someone at least!
Regards.

[pwilk47490] 11/1/2011 21:18

Thanks Muckshifter. One small consolation from this small debacle is that if we do as you suggest, which seems a fine idea, you can pretty much pick and choose what year you do it in as well, which obviously has a few advantages ;-)

[muckshifter] 11/1/2011 13:37

How would they do that? The shares are worth nothing, and anyone with half a brain in HMRC would know that. Do you really believe they would be willing to challenge such a transaction, which is perfectly legal, in court, knowing that by the time the thing got to court they would be hoist by their own petard and facing huge costs?
Regards.

Perhaps you have never had a huge battle with HMRC. I have, and found that in the end sense prevailed after some savage dialogue, ie they dropped completely a £14,000 tax bill claim, thereby saving themselves enormous embarrasment and cost.

[skirbell] 11/1/2011 13:19

I think HMRC's issue with selling the shares for 1p might be whether someone is trying to avoid tax by not selling at fair market value. If HMRC do not attribute zero value to JRVS, and won't do for a number of years, then they must attribute some value. Therefore, would they view 1p for all of the shares fair market value? I'm sure HMRC would argue not.

[muckshifter] 11/1/2011 12:16

It will probably take years for HMRC to acknowledge it as zero value. Hence my solution. The fact that the shares will still be shown as in your nominee account after "selling" them for a penny to a relative is irrelevant IMHO. You have sold the rights to any value for a penny, on the day of the transaction and provided you have the DATED letter showing the private transaction you have proof of the disposal.
AIMHO, of course, but I can't see HMRC challenging an off exchange transaction as I've done a few!
Regards.

[arab3] 11/1/2011 12:09

i hold in a nominee account
and wonder how long it will be before i can use as a loss for cgt.
I take it ,it is when hrmc put it on the list , how often is the
list updated ?

[muckshifter] 11/1/2011 11:50

The problem is that it takes years for HMRC to declare them of nil value. This is shown eventually on the HMRC website here but may take years as I think they wait for final liquidation.

I run share accounts for a few members of my family. My solution for one member of my family, who held some in a normal account (ie not an ISA), and had lots of capital gains to realise in excess of the £10,100 tax free limit, was that she wrote a letter selling the rights to any final income from the shares, to me, for a penny, which allowed her to use the capital loss this year. I don't see HMRC as being likely to challenge that, as the suspension is simply of dealings in the shares on the stock exchange, which is just one mechanism for buying and selling shares. In the past, when I used to hold share certificates, I changed ownership privately on several occasions, registering the change by paying stamp duty at an office under the Royal Exchange in Manchester, IIRC.

Hope this is of help to someone.
Regards.

[pwilk47490] 11/1/2011 00:10

Surely it will be a while before you can legitimately claim the loss for this one?!?!??!

[fruiticus] 08/1/2011 20:56

When will they be de-listed - it annoys me that Fastrade still value them at 9p in my ISA and charge a management fee

[carver66] 08/1/2011 20:29

bbd2 - thanks, that makes sense unfortunately.

[bbd2] 08/1/2011 07:54

You can move them out with Barclays ( I did so I could close the ISA) but I am prety sure you can't take the loss with you.

[carver66] 08/1/2011 02:47

Might as well get something out of the dog. Fortunately others in the portfolio have performed well to give me the CGT problem. Surely until the shares are de-listed i could move them out any time i like?

[truckertee] 07/1/2011 23:37

I wouldn't have thought so, the idea of an ISA being that it's a tax free vehicle.

[carver66] 07/1/2011 20:15

Anyone know if you can transfer shares in JRVS in their current state from an ISA to a normal trading account - and use them as a tax loss?

[jarbie] 12/11/2010 16:10

I assume JRVS does exist so long as it remains in administration
my comment relates to the real reason for the administration
since I never believed the assumed reason of debt management
it was trading profitably and had forward workload

The Board must have learned of the possible prosecution
and through in the towel before the event - just in case
knowing it would be heavily fined and crippled anyway
we can only speculate on the position of the directors
under the current legislation of corporate responsibility

None of this changes the position of the shareholders
in our predicament - it just clarifies the issue
and may speed up the current process of winding up - please DYOR