Itv Share Discussion Threads

[bobdiamond1] 30/10/2021 19:37

Sorry chaps, I didn't mean to cause a disagreement.

[exlogiclad] 30/10/2021 18:44

ASz....are you for real, I see you joined a few months back, have posted only only on ITV and are probably some loser's alternate ego, hello anybody else in there. Yes, there are idiots who use many handles, saddo's but there we are.

BobD cited the Madoff affair as a referral to matthewr's post on markets being heavily regulated. They are badly regulated by people who are paid for by the people they are supposed to regulate.

Market regulation or lack of it, has everything to do with an ongoing discussion about ITV and the amount of ordinary investors and others who think rightly or wrongly that something is amiss. It doesn't matter that you claim not to have read a paper, listened to a radio, watched tv news and have no interest in any of it....all proves you are either a troll or you were born yesterday.

I doubt anyone is losing sleep over anything, so I don't see your 'logic'.

[angersharkz] 30/10/2021 15:47

exlogiclad - nope afraid not. It was before my time and I’m not overly concerned with historic Ponzi schemes ran over in the US or see how that has any relevance to my investment in ITV?

I think anyone that is losing sleep over manipulation and corruption in the stock market yet chooses to invest their money into it…..doesnR17;t seem very logical to me?

[exlogiclad] 30/10/2021 15:34

onebd2...hello stan.lol.

[exlogiclad] 30/10/2021 15:32

BobD.....Let's just say you pays your money and you takes your choice.

AngerShark...You are not familiar with the Bernie Madoff case, what planet are you on! it was the biggest stockmarket fraud in history.

[matthewr1] 30/10/2021 15:29

Let’s keep this grown up.
When a hedge fund trades any Uk share , they get booked out after the close 90% of the time. Why? Because if they have been selling for example they don’t want to print the big trade intraday as it would indicate exactly that , that they are finished , and the market could reposition as a result. Why are they allowed to do this vs normal reporting limits? Due to the prime broker relationship.
Every hedge fund has at least 2 PBs. The role of a PB is to handle all things for the hedge fund , from reporting , settlements , lending or trading etc . It’s an incredibly lucrative relationship for a broker. It exists particularly it the UK because it avoids the hedge fund paying stamp (50bp on purchases). Let’s say ABC hedge fund wanted to buy 1m ITV ASAP yesterday.They give the order to a broker , who starts buying in the mkt. Let’s say it takes 50 trades through the morning in the mkt , but is done by midday at an average of 105p. All that will have printed are the 50 seller prints so far. After the mkt has closed the PB needs to book a trade to ABC , so books 1m she sold at 105p. This prints.Now that may look dodgy based on its size and price vs the close , but is actually normal market practice by a broker , a PB or a hedge fund. Most large UK trades that print after the close are exactly this. Is it fair? Not really , but then since the inception of hedge funds it’s never been a level playing field as they can buy and sell (short) vs institutions who can only sell what they own (or buy)……..but it’s not manipulation.

[angersharkz] 30/10/2021 15:25

Bobdiamond1 - from what I have seen on the thread I haven’t read anyone that hasn’t acknowledged that manipulation exists? I think we all know it exists.

I am not familiar with the case you have mentioned that happened over in the US but how does that correlate to manipulation happening here with ITV?

I would also politely ask how do you know that these huge investment banks are rigging the markets on a daily basis?

I’m certainly not a part of any elite club but I would question if you think that the markets are so corrupt why would you willingly put your money into it?

[onedb2] 30/10/2021 15:18

bobi dont think anyone saying the markets are not full of crooked activitythe issue is that manipulation has been propelled to cause number one on the list of reasons for itvs share price decline, without actual evidencethere are many more likely reasons, thats all

[nige co] 30/10/2021 15:09

I've enjoyed reading the thread today with good knowledgeable comments, let's not spoil it guys. Thank you.

[angersharkz] 30/10/2021 15:06

Goldfinger16 - I am by no means an expert on this matter but my understanding is that you will get a lot of the biggest trades of the day occurring during the closing auction as often times it’s we’re the big buyers will get the best prices. I’m not sure how purchases being made after the bell points towards manipulation? It happens on every share I own. I would also ask do you think a major player…..Goldman for instance could or would get away with not playing by the rules for half a year? The repercussions for them would put them out of business.

I would imagine that when someone wants to accumulate shares on the cheap they would drive the share price down very quickly and stock up while they have chance?

I could be wrong…..but a 6 month share manipulation when there isn’t really any motive or evidence seems far fetched to me.

[stansmith3] 30/10/2021 15:01

fact: lots of shares drifted down over the summerfact: lots of shares have large numbers of uncrossing trades every dayfact: lots of boards have underwater holders claiming manipulation without actual evidence, just wooly nonsense on which to base their claim

[hades1] 30/10/2021 14:26

https://www.fool.co.uk/2021/10/30/2-ftse-100-stocks-with-big-dividends-to-buy-in-november/

[goldfinger16] 30/10/2021 14:23

Anger...you ask what evidence there is. Go back to July when the share price started it's downward path and take any day any week week and look at the trades, huge numbers of uncrossing trades reported after the bell. We know that after the uncrossing it is still possible to trade at the uncrossing price if there are any orders left on the book, those orders are the ones we should look at. I can't prove manipulation but these are the trades one should be pointing to, they can hide a lot and have hidden a lot in past takeovers.

matthew....Please don't get snippy, I have no time for childishness...I have no doubt that I have the floor, but when one argues with a fool, it has to start with two fools and I assure you that I am no fool.

Also, it is not my little book, I never wrote it and as it doesn't have pictures I doubt it would be for you. It is nice to know that you are the big time experienced Market Wizard who knows it all.

Are you too stupid to figure out why a share price is manipulated. It is to keep the price as low as possible to buy as many as shares as possible for as little as possible.

[angersharkz] 30/10/2021 13:38

To put things into perspective I get involved and read the chat boards of other stocks I hold in my portfolio and there has been alot of talk of manipulation throughout the market not just here, some of which I think most people would consider them to be good quality stocks with strong fundamentals….

The summer months are usually hard on the markets as trading activity declines as does liquidity. I think it’s been particularly difficult this year with a lingering pandemic under an uncertain economic backdrop. All profits that were made from the optimism of the vaccines and a recovering economy have been banked and a lot of the good shares are stagnant or drifting downwards as fear sets in.

All you can do in times like these is pick sensible, profitable stocks and believe that the markets will come back again. I think it’s also sensible to do so with caution as the US markets look like a ticking time bomb in my opinion.

[matthewr1] 30/10/2021 13:07

Exactly. Come on Goldfinger , you have the floor. With all your ‘city experience’ please explain.

[angersharkz] 30/10/2021 13:01

Goldfinger16 - I have no doubt that forms of manipulation are still happening today. Those with the most clout and knowledge of the technicalities and loopholes of the market will almost certainly exploit them where there’s financial gains to be made…….but what evidence is there that there’s any manipulation happening here? Why would they be doing so? And how do you manipulate a share for 6 months?

[matthewr1] 30/10/2021 13:00

Granted some manipulation happens. But the point here is to equate ITV’s underperformance with ‘manipulation.’ To what end & how please?
Btw , I was a managing director at a large US house for 10 years salestrading for over 25 years, So I don’t need your little book to know what I’m talking about.

[goldfinger16] 30/10/2021 12:46

Why would they get involved in “manipulating” ITVs share price. That simply doesn’t make sense based of the fines and reputational damage if they were culpable. That’s not to say they’re not the most “informed̶1; broker…..

matthewr1....I worked for many years in the City and I can assure you that share price/stock manipulation happens all the time, it is rife because it is so easy for those with the unlimited resources to do it. If you believe otherwise, you must have been asleep at your desk or working somewhere in the back back office.

Market Manipulation...Read The ‘tricks’ used by those seeking to benefit from this special category of fraud and the relationship of dedicated provisions to the general law is outlined. Invest a few pounds and buy The Little Book of Market Manipulation: An Essential Guide to the Law Paperback - 29 January 2020

by Gregory J Durston and Ailsa McKeon

[matthewr1] 30/10/2021 10:55

Again I’m not trying to patronise , but markets and stocks are extremely complicated and highly regulated. You have derivative trading , index trading , algos , high frequency to name but a few things. How stock trading gets reported is opaque at best despite the regulation. I’m not saying that insider trading doesn’t still occur . Due to human nature (greed) , it always will. But taking a broker like Goldman for example. They are an enormous beast , much bigger than our banks (I think). Why would they get involved in “manipulating” ITVs share price. That simply doesn’t make sense based of the fines and reputational damage if they were culpable. That’s not to say they’re not the most “informed̶1; broker…..
I agree Angelsharkz with your summation, though isn’t it strange to put some of the move down to WPP when one could easily have bgt ITV at say 104 all day Thursday. It’s another reflection of apathy towards UK plc , and ITV that the market can be so inefficient. Having said that , (& as per WPP), if you deliver blow out results , then analysts have to take note , and fund managers have to buy…..fingers crossed.

[angersharkz] 30/10/2021 10:24

Nige - I wouldn’t disagree with that. Most companies trade around x10 earnings…̷0;I think ITV will make c650-700m this financial year so you would expect ITV to have a market cap around 7bn and we’re currently at about 4bn!

Not to mention that ITV could possibly be in a growth sector if advertising revenue continues to increase…..could be a very good quality stock to hold over the next few years

[nige co] 30/10/2021 10:08

Simply Wall St have updated their fair value on ITV to 188p, 42.7% undervalued. Wow.

[nige co] 30/10/2021 09:56

Yes good point Hades. in August 2020 Goldman held over 21% of ITV of which 9.9% of it was on loan from Liberty Global.