Ithaca Energy Share Discussion Threads

[tom306] 24/11/2008 16:23

LP
ITIS don't have the sole patent for floating car data, they have patents on their version of floating car data, a version that was dropped by the UK DOT last year for that of a competitor. FCD was originally developed and patented in Germany by Mannesmann and Tegaron, even BMW Germany has a version. Don't take my word for it, look see at

or even Google it.

Neither does ITIS have sole patents on using mobile telephony to detect traffic speeds. TomTom/TeleAtlas (through Generics and Vodafone), Navteq/Nokia and others have similar capabilities.

Let me repeat in case you missed this also, TFC is not the real competition long term so please don't throw out smokescreens to hide the paucity of your research.

Where I do agree with you is that the UK providers are likely to be taken out. Unlike you, I don't think the predators will be willing to pay a substantial premium.

[lucky punter] 24/11/2008 12:04

Tom
I appreciate all of that, Navteq providing a solution is not the end of business for Itis. These solutions are all inter related and just because Navteq are producing a solution does not make it all Navteqs work. The Itis product used by Telefonica will not be called Itis anything but Telefonica something. I think you need to do some research into who is supporting who's platforms. Floating vehicle data is a patented idea belonging to Itis.
Itis have entered an anonymous world of solution provision in markets other than the UK, solution providers are not listed in the small print of high profile releases. I suggest you know all this already which is why you work so hard to push the share price down. Are you the same Tom that used to post on TFC with Pilgrim74 at 60p saying how they would rule the world and be worth £10 by christmas. Agenda, agenda agenda.
Best of luck, I will add over the next 3 to 6 months once things become clearer.

Maybe you are tasked for this, think I will stick around to find out:
This acquisition is a first - but significant - pace into the consolidation of traffic information companies across Europe. It is likely that NAVTEQ will not stop after only one acquisition. The Nokia subsidiary is currently working on a project with Telefonica in Spain, but covering major countries such as United Kingdom or France will be key for NAVTEQ. Indeed, Dutch competitor TomTom-Tele Atlas is launching this month its HD traffic solution in Great Britain, Germany, France and Switzerland; Netherlands was already covered and Belgium will be very soon.



Next step: United Kingdom?
Likely acquisition candidates for NAVTEQ could be for example one of the two providers of traffic information in the United Kingdom: ITIS Holding and Trafficmaster which are both listed on the London Stock Exchange and under valuated like many other companies these days. ITIS Holding current market capitalization is £13.08 million while its revenue in the year closing 31 March 2008 was £18.32m with profit before taxation of £4.79m. Trafficmaster's market capitalization is £15.71 million while its 2007 revenue was £48,4 million and operating profit £5,4 million.

[tom306] 24/11/2008 11:22

Sorry, you either missed my point or chose to misinterpret it. I do not see Trafficmaster as the main competition, the fact they are winning highly profitable contracts off ITIS should be a worry but if you want to take the risk then its your money. Before you do so, I suggest you research the websites of the big boys. If you are not "impressed" then I suggest you should be. I attach a few samples you may have missed - two relate to ITIS customers/partners you have already mentioned. Many more can be found on the Navteq website. And TomTom are following a similar strategy. Good luck.


Barcelona, Spain– February 13, 2008 – NAVTEQ (NYSE: NVT), a leading global provider of digital map data for vehicle navigation and location-based solutions, announced today an agreement with Telefónica for the cooperative innovation of new mobile traffic products for European markets. This relationship is a milestone in the first phase of NAVTEQ Traffic™ presence in Europe, and initial products are targeted for Barcelona and Madrid. NAVTEQ Traffic currently serves the United States and Canada with comprehensive real-time and historical traffic data services and technology.


New York – November 17, 2008 – NAVTEQ, a leading global provider of digital map data for location-based solutions and vehicle navigation, will showcase innovative new traffic probe data programs including a Nokia probe data application that significantly advances traffic monitoring at the 2008 ITS World Congress in New York, November 16-20th (Booth 401 at the Javits Convention Center).

Chicago, IL- September 5, 2007 – NAVTEQ Corporation (NYSE: NVT), a leading global provider of digital maps for vehicle navigation and location-based solutions, today announced with Mercedes-Benz USA (MBUSA) that NAVTEQ Traffic RDS (Radio Data System) is now available as a standard, lifetime traffic service in all 2008 Mercedes-Benz S-Class and CL-Class automobiles. This marks the first lifetime traffic service offering by an automotive manufacturer delivered via NAVTEQ Traffic RDS, and included as a standard feature with navigation. The 2008 Mercedes-Benz S-Class and CL-Class are now available for sale at U.S. dealers.

[lucky punter] 24/11/2008 10:32

Tom
They have lost two what you call major contracts (a couple of million pounds) to TFC who are themselves in a worse position than Itis as they are locked to the UK with their installed camera offering. They have been forced to seek new markets where as Itis have the option to expand around the globe. TFC can provide high quality data with their network of sensors and cameras and as such they have won these two contracts but their advantage ends there.
Of course there will be other providers, you real them off as if I should be impressed, they have started late and no doubt will invest millions for the UK market. The patents held by Itis will provide them with huge commercial advantage. Telefonica are themselves a huge group of companies as are Delcan. These are local specialists who know there market and how to exploit it. I say again you may be right but I will go with huge groups who have decided to partner Itis and put up the cash.

[tom306] 24/11/2008 10:22

I'm sorry but I disagree. Data supply in international car markets is all about volume, market share, price and quality. Yes there will be more than one supplier but not many more than two. The only place where ITIS has an established business model is the UK where as they themselves say they are under severe pressure. They have lost two major contracts in the UK, GM and DOT, and are struggling to compensate. These contracts were lost not to TomTom/TeleAtlas or Navteq/Nokia, but to Trafficmaster who are as small as they are. The big boys are only now entering the UK. My bet is that ITIS, as a one product company, will be taken out at nothing like the potential value you attribute.

BTW the contracts to which you refer were awarded when ITIS had the sole RDS TMC offering in the UK. They now have competition which has won the vast majority of new contracts and also claim majority market share. If they are losing ground in their home market why should they be successful elsewhere against even stronger competition?

[lucky punter] 24/11/2008 09:35

Tom
I am not saying that Itis have the market place to themselves, I doubt any 13 million capped company has. Obviously if times were better the share price would be much higher, Itis face challenges and they will not dominate the world for the provision of traffic data but they are building a business which is considerably bigger than the current share price suggests.
The telematics market is littered with failed partnerships but Itis are not in the telematics market they provide data to the telmatics market infact for the rest of the world they will not even do that they will provide the tools for others to provide data or for their own use.
Telefonica, Be-mobile,Delcan, mercedes and the like have not choosen Itis by accident, they like the technology and think they can make money with it. That means that Itis make royality payments, are they all wrong and you are right, lets wait and see.

[tom306] 24/11/2008 08:43

The problem Itis has is one of time. Other, much larger organisations, such as Navteq/Nokia and TomTom/TeleAtlas, have already gained the international momentum that Itis seeks but has not achieved. That is a major threat to a basically one product company which has seen its key UK market come under huge pressure to the extent that it is finding it difficult to replace the lost revenue.

I acknowledge that Itis is trying to expand through much larger partners who will carry the majority of the risk. But that itself poses a huge risk to Itis. We are in the worst economic climate ever experienced. So do I believe those partners will make the substantial investment/take the commercial risks needed for Itis' international success? No I do not and even if they do the initial timeframes will certainly be delayed substantially. The history of telematics is littered with large company/small company partnerships. Few, if any, have delivered value.

[lucky punter] 23/11/2008 22:45

Tom
The partnerships abroad are with very well established partners who are in some cases market leaders. The income structure for the expansion overseas is such that Itis merely offer the product on license so if the venture is not successful then the local operator carries the risk. Itis will of course only make money if the venture is a success but what do they have to lose. It is true than none of the overseas ventures are really adding anything to the balance sheet yet but I have described them as grassroots which I believe to be an accurate assessment. I would be concerned if they were going it alone and shouldering the risk but that just is not the case.
The fact is that Itis have very innovative and scaleable products which has seen a level of demand. Itis are making the product pay in the UK and the challenge is to do that at other locations. The market is rotten and the share price has suffered but Itis are not alone in that. With all I know about this company, the products and the extent of the potential I believe it is heavily undervalue at the current share price although my investment has little to do with these results mid or year end but where the company will go if even 1 in 5 of the overseas partnerships workout and the market improves.
You mention that TomTom and Navteq are making strides, indeed they are and good luck to them.

[tom306] 23/11/2008 14:59

Itis have been trying to generate overseas revenues for a number of years but the segmentation analysis they produce show that overseas revenues are still miniscule compared to the UK. IMHO they will not compensate for quite some time, if ever. In the meantime, TomTom and Navteq are making big strides forward internationally with real products. Their best, and perhaps only, chance is to be taken out by a bigger player but this is not exactly a seller's market.

[lucky punter] 22/11/2008 04:01

Granted the results may be worse than they were at 50p a share but they are not now 50p a share. The most important part of the results will be progress made in the many parts of the world where Itis have grassroots interests. They are in the process of establishing service bases in many countries using local partners. This will be many times more profitable through royalty type payments than the current set up but it will take time to deliver.
In fact I would be concerned if the management said that everything was OK and that the crisis did not effect them, Itis are at 13p for a reason and I have no problem with that.
As I said I will add over the next 3 to 6 months with a view to the current crisis easing or at least the market becoming accustom to it.

[russianlinesman] 21/11/2008 21:32

problem is lp results to 30 Sep will be poor and those to next 31 March even worse. Not only loss of 2 contracts but new car sales falling off a cliff will make a big dent in the numbers.

It's a recovery play next year, but I think the share price could stay near current levels for another 12 months.

just imho

[lucky punter] 21/11/2008 12:30

Just doing some research here as I have not viewed Itis for a long time after selling out last year. The posts 288 to 290 are slightly missing the point. Itis have not been named as a partner/contributor but Hampshire CC are supplied data by Itis so infact,Itis have a direct input into the project. see the case study section under resources on the website.
This company is heavily undervalued at present and whilst the results next week may reflect tougher times the share price has already given holders the bad news with the drop from the 40's. There is huge growth potential ahead with the worldwide rollout and this factor could catapult this out of the doldrums if the market shows signs of recovery.
I have bought in today for a small stake and will add over the next 3-6 months.

[russianlinesman] 26/9/2008 15:00

The share price has fallen from 80p to 20p in a couple of years, so a fall to 17p/19p is not the market treating it as a shock profits warning. The market had guessed this already.

All I'm saying is if they are still cash positive, they may well be able to sustain the dividend. And that is a very tidy yield.

[tom306] 25/9/2008 08:19

RL
They might not have said it but the market treated the statement as a profit warning and rightly so. They made clear that trading in the UK was "difficult" and that they had not been able to make up the revenues lost with the Vauxhall and DfT contracts. They also reported growing investment overseas but added the benefit will come "next year".

[utterly pointless] 25/9/2008 07:48

I guess they didn't say it because they hadn't given much advice about earnings previously. I read this as backtracking on their promise of jam later today in the last statement; it's now quite clearly jam tomorrow. Not very strong management, frankly, that marches the share price up the hill only to have to march it back down again.

[russianlinesman] 24/9/2008 22:05

but they didn't say that results would be worse than expected. Cash positive with strong balance sheet - if dividend stays at 1.5p, yield is 8-9%.

[tom306] 24/9/2008 18:30

Looks like a bad set of figures are on the way. First the loss of revenue in the UK and then high investment overseas where the revenue base is very much smaller.



RNS Number : 2058E
ITIS Holdings PLC
24 September 2008

The following statement will be read by Sir Trevor Chinn, Chairman of ITIS Holdings plc ("ITIS" or the "Company"), at the AGM to be held
at the offices of ITIS, Station House, Stamford New Road, Altrincham, Cheshire WA14 1EP at 2.00pm today, 24th September 2008.
"Trading in the UK in the first half of our financial year has been difficult as a result of high fuel prices leading to less traffic
congestion and the impact on our RDS-TMC revenues of the rapid decline of car sales since June. It has also proved challenging to replace
the revenues from the two contract losses announced last year.
We have reduced costs at Trafficlink and believe that the consolidation in the radio industry will further strengthen our performance in that market. We remain confident that we can build on a very successful operation to continue
to enhance the quality of our traffic information and our product offerings.
Our international business continues to develop at a fast pace and we have made significant investments in people and operations to
enable us to capitalise on the demand for our services. Operations in Asia have been progressing well, particularly in China and Singapore.
We have begun to deploy our technology in Ireland, South Africa and Australia. We continue to receive regular enquiries from all over the world and are at various stages of positive negotiation in a number of countries. We are
confident we will start to see the benefits of this
investment next year.
The Company remains cash positive with a strong balance sheet enabling us to continue our planned investment programme in order to
maintain our clear market leadership position, providing our customers with high quality and innovative traffic information. Whilst the cyclical downturn has led to challenging market conditions in the UK, we remain excited about
the significant market potential around the world for traffic information, especially in some of the fast developing countries where we already have a presence."

[monty panesar] 25/8/2008 22:42

Why don't the management take it private for 35p? Seems a reasonable business being mispriced by the market.

[grgkecer] 15/7/2008 09:01

The effect of the capital reduction will also be to create a substantial
distributable reserve which will be available for the payment of future
dividends.

[utterly pointless] 10/7/2008 15:41

I now think (for what it's worth) that (a) I am wrong (b) flyfisher is right and (c) (probably) they didn't mean to use the word interim in the February RNS

[tom306] 10/7/2008 14:44

Good spot, Utterly. Curious and curiouser - so which was it and why the confusion?

[utterly pointless] 10/7/2008 11:51

Oh, I do like a good row.

Following is the RNS for the divvi paid in February. You will see that the RNS describes the divvi as an INTERIM divvi. Against that, russianlinesman and flyfisher, the recent finals say that the Feb divvi was in respect of the 2006/7 financial year. I wonder whether they have backtracked in the finals (possibly for the reason outlined by TOM306)?

"RNS Number:2676N ITIS Holdings PLC 05 February 2008

ITIS Holdings PLC ("ITIS" or the "Company")

Payment of dividend and cancellation of share premium account

The Board of ITIS is pleased to announce that, following the High Court approval given on 23 January 2008 of the resolution passed at the Company's extraordinary general meeting on 22 November 2007 for the elimination of an accumulated deficit on its profit and loss account of GBP 33,520,972 by the cancellation of the whole of the amount standing to the credit of its share premium account, an interim dividend of 1.5p per share will be paid on 29 February 2008 to all shareholders on the register at the close of business on 15 February 2008."

[russianlinesman] 10/7/2008 11:34

flyfisher is correct, the 1.5p we already had was last year's final dividend, and this year's 1.5p is what has been announced. There is not yet an interim dividend.

[flyfisher] 10/7/2008 11:28

utterly , the way i read it is that the 1.5 p div paid at the interim stage was the 06/07 final div, they had to get court approval before paying it , hence the delay.

Following the High Court approval given on 23 January 2008 of the resolution passed at the Company's extraordinary general meeting on 22
November 2007 for the elimination of an accumulated deficit on its profit and loss account of £33,520,972 by the cancellation of the whole of the amount standing to the credit of its share premium account, a dividend of 1.5p per
share was paid on 29 February 2008 in respect of the 2006/7 year.

The Board of ITIS will declare a final dividend each year. The Board will recommend to shareholders at the Company's forthcoming AGM that a final dividend for the year ended 31 March 2008 of 1.5p per will be paid on 29
September 2008 to the members on the register at the close of business on 5 September 2008.

regards

[utterly pointless] 10/7/2008 10:05

Tom306... I hear your point about dividend cover and take it as a strong vote of confidence in the company's performance. As you will know as well as I do, it is pretty catastrophic for the share price of companies when they are forced to cut their dividend and I don't think management would put themselves in a position where they thought there was any material risk of that happening. I can quite see that UK growth may not increase hugely - the falls in new car purchases counteracting the commodisation (i.e. growth) of the sorts of product ITH offers - but the international growth picture is much healthier...