Ip Share Discussion Threads

[p1nkfish] 28/8/2019 18:09

If the expected slowdown hits I envisage Substantial NAV pressure.

The current price might be discounting that but not yet sufficiently.

[guildedge] 28/8/2019 17:07

The ironic thing is I don't think Woodford has actually sold any shares here.

St James's Place however.
hxxps://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/st-jamess-place-offloads-500m-of-woodfords-stocks/a1255926

IP Group are also investors in one of those shares. My gut is SJP are still selling. Which suggests even at these prices they can't find a buyer?

Results on 10/09/2019. If anything the good news might be the market over reacted to the Woodford issue? There is no simple way to remove him from IP Group and all the other investments IP Group hold.

[guildedge] 11/8/2019 21:37

Can't read most of it as not a paid up Telegraph reader. Any thoughts? It gives him an easy way out here at a profit!

[guildedge] 08/8/2019 20:47

Woodford owns nearly 9.6% of Burford. Invesco 13%+. They both just lost 140m and 210m respectively. Unless either dumped stock before the crash?

Problem here is between them they still own 40% of IP Group.

If their funds keep taking big hits like this investors will want their money back putting further pressure on IP Group. Especially if investors are forced to sell. Woodford has waited here and on other shares and it is costing him millions.

You have to really worry about Invesco too. Too closely linked to Woodford. His losses must be mounting up here. Muddy Waters can target 1 share a year and cause them big losses. A video online already links Burford to IP Group. Albeit today IP group recovered slightly. Maybe because the share price is heavily depressed already?



hxxps://citywire.co.uk/funds-insider/news/woodford-and-invesco-hit-as-burford-crashes-on-short-attack/a1257551

It's possible a short attack could target IP Groups results in September. So far only 1 firm seems to be above 0.5% and shorting IP Group.

Nervous time to own any shares right now.

[p1nkfish] 08/8/2019 16:24

Woodford doesn't help.

[p1nkfish] 08/8/2019 16:24

Illiquidity is a killer currently, especially if raising cash waiting for opportunities to rise Oct/Nov and just around Oct 31st. Just my thought, worth zero.

[brucie5] 08/8/2019 11:48

I'd be inclined to wait for capitulation here, which will be quite clear on the chart.

[porsche1945] 08/8/2019 11:40

You say must have value, does it? A lot of cash hungry start ups. May just be a pile of liabilities constantly having to issue new shares to stay in biz, dilution ahead.

Weif down nearly 4pc in 24 hours on Burford collapse, anything Woodford related viewed as toxic is also a problem, if its shown he and that idiot Barnett at Invesco broke the rules the final drop will be brutal. Cant see how board will allow him to stay on at wpct.

[guildedge] 07/8/2019 16:58

At some point there has to be a bottom here as all these shares and private holdings must have a value. If funds are waiting to invest perhaps they are waiting for the results or for Woodford to show his cards here. I think he will look for an ouright buyer rather than sell bit by bit. Assuming he sells.

I can't believe all these assets were valued double what they are truly worth? As share is almost a 1/3rd of what the broker values them at. Maybe this is more down to IP Groups model here. They have copied Woodford in many respects and his funds value has collapsed. Has anyone tried to compare the fall on his fund to IP Group? His Woodford equity Income fund was down 9% last year and 24% this year to August. This fund holds 3.3% weight of IP group. Also 2.58% weight of Oxford Nanopore.

What is more likely is that the broker has simply not changed their value here. We saw this with IQE where some brokers were touting 180p valuations when the share price was way below half this.

I just hope IP Group are honest about the true valuations when it comes to the results.

[p1nkfish] 03/8/2019 17:22

Theres a chance some forced sellers needing liquidity and now having to sell something that is itself a basket of many illiquid holdings. Woodford DNA on it?

[brucie5] 03/8/2019 10:01

30p looks like the absolute historic bottom for this from 2008/9. Some support at 40? Other than that I have not idea why it's at such a discount, except that peeps take Tsomev's view and decline to risk anything in a downwards shoot. At some stage, extreme value will surely out.

[bjfanc] 03/8/2019 07:16

NAV was around 115p per share so approaching a 50 per cent discount.

[p1nkfish] 02/8/2019 19:05

Yes, made money from MWG.
Very little is worth holding forever.
Buy when under valued, sell when over valued, tends to be a good thing to do.

[buywell3] 02/8/2019 18:51

Like Modern Water(MDW) for example

One you liked a lot I seem to remember when it shot to 30p

Then you stopped posting


Currently looking at 1p or administration


And according to the header IPO have :


Modern Water plc 23.2%









p1nkfish

1 Aug '19 - 22:02 - 808 of 811

Ridiculous state given the breadth of the portfolio but few liquidity events. A lesson in this for everyone involved.

[p1nkfish] 02/8/2019 17:27

Liquidity matters.

% of market cap attributable to Ox Nano is increasing and with it risk if that has issues or is valued inappropriately.

[bamboo2] 02/8/2019 09:24

Historical support at approx 45 & 30
Breakaway gap from 11/9/2011 45.2-45.4 could be a support zone

Confirmed H&S tp approx 10.7

[davr0s] 01/8/2019 22:32

I simply don't hold stuff in downtrends as they can persist a lot longer than you might expect - line here

[p1nkfish] 01/8/2019 22:02

Ridiculous state given the breadth of the portfolio but few liquidity events. A lesson in this for everyone involved.

[davr0s] 01/8/2019 19:18

It may not be collapsing but it ain't looking too clever either

[guildedge] 01/8/2019 17:13

St. James's Place plc group of companies have reduced by 1.1% to 3.9% of IP group stock. They have 41,408,510 shares left here. ( Double checked.)

They have likely cleared 10m shares over last few weeks. We knew someone was selling here. Every time share tries to rise it is forced lower. Share is not collapsing so someone is buying here.

[guildedge] 22/7/2019 16:55

Yes I misread that RNS.

Ceres is now just above 201p. So they are now up 10-15% on this stock. Albeit this was after June so not likely to be included in H1 results?

Share price here keeps testing 68p. UT price was 67.9p.

Results are in early September. So 6-7 weeks wait.

[kooba] 15/7/2019 19:20

That is not a sale that is referencing the transfer of funds away from Woodfordhttps://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/news/jupiter-wins-370m-woodford-mandate/a1243191Same happened when WIM lost the St James mandate.The rns statesNo trading in the stock - voting control interest over stock transferred to new managerSo Woodford selling is not a factor ...anticipation of Woodford having to sell is a factor..but there is no evidence of WIM selling any stock so far.IP Group actually holds a direct undiluted beneficial stake of 56.4% in Istesso as per rns.

[guildedge] 15/7/2019 17:15

WIM reduced to 13.41% on 09/07/2019. Probably the main reason the share is still around 70-75p. I think he will continue selling here. Unless he waits for the H1 results. Which were hinted at in one of the RNS today.

Istesso - IP Group hold 59% of this firm so any good news will have a bigger effect.

Ceres shares up 5p on the day.

So some of the firms they invested in seem to be doing okay.

[kooba] 15/7/2019 10:36

Don't think WIM has actually sold any IPO have they? some shares transferred out to other managers but as a Ftse 250 holding this fits his restructuring remit I would have thought.