Ip Share Discussion Threads

[bamboo2] 23/11/2020 17:32

I guess 4,443,330 could have been sold separately in dribs and drabs, then rns'ed with one lot of 44m. So there could be another RNS on the way for another 44m shares? Double checked the Friday trades, 763 81.0 16:18:04 44,000,000 762 81.0 16:17:57 44,000,000

[bamboo2] 23/11/2020 17:15

20/11/2020 Invesco go from 13.66% to 9.10%, a reduction of 4.56% They now hold 9.1% or 96,691,584 shares ======================================= Something not quite right about these figures! Two lots of 44m shares were sold on Friday. Assuming 1% of the co is 10623537.34 shares, 4.56% of the co is approx 48,443,330 shares Edit, happy to admit not being very comfortable with large figures, so if anyone fancies double checking, I would be grateful.

[bamboo2] 23/11/2020 11:11

The 88m trade on Friday is logged at the LSE on their trades data. Obviously delayed. I can't remember the maximum delay time for a very large trade. The place of execution was SITA. This is different to most of the other trades, but I was unable to find out the whereabouts of SITA. Since Lansdowne are closing the fund that holds IPO, but are also opening a new fund, I did wonder if it could be some kind of transfer?

[p1nkfish] 23/11/2020 10:41

Don't really care if buy or sell as the trend is still intact and even if trend breaks down my average is low enough to exit in profit. Fact price didn't collapse is very promising.

[pierre oreilly] 23/11/2020 10:33

Pink, which part of the reasoning i gave indicating the big trade was a buy do you disagree with? What's your reasoning that it was a sell?

[p1nkfish] 23/11/2020 10:28

Where the transaction price sits relative to mid-point of the spread but that's not always a perfect indicator of where balance of power is. Does it matter for an 88M transaction where one party needs out irrespective of the fundamentals of the company they are exiting? Someone picked up the shares at what the acquirer thought was an attractive price. Seller needed out and in all likelihood wasn't optimising for return.

[bamboo2] 23/11/2020 10:05

Pierre and Benchmark, thanks for the input, I am always keen to try to understand. As I said "I find the market confusing at times." To me, if a deal is done and money changes hands then both a buy and sell has taken place. The identity of the buyer and seller doesn't really matter to me, but then I am really just a trader. Perhaps, as a trader of shares, I am more like a market maker than an investor!

[pierre oreilly] 23/11/2020 09:44

687 You are putting your own definition of a buy and sell, and not accepting the stock market's definition. The mms didnt take on £70m of stock, they passed it to the buyer's broker, and got paid a couple of days later. I'd guess they had a buy order for 70£m a week or 2 or 3 ago, and picked them up in dribs and drabs rising the price to get them, completing the order at some stage, after which the delay for reporting the completion started after which the trade got published. The price rising during that period means it was almost certainly a buy. As you say, the lack of a holding rns is strange

[benchmark] 23/11/2020 09:39

Bamboo, with respect, it is NOT the case in stock market dealing that "all trades have both a buyer and a seller" as you have stated in post 685 and implied previously. The role of the market maker is to buy/absorb shares that are being sold into the market and to sell to buyers. Buyers may or may not exist depending on how the market views a particular stock at any given time. Market makers are supposed to adjust the share price based on the balance of selling and buying demand. In short, in normal dealing ("O" trades) sellers do not offload their shares directly to buyers.

[p1nkfish] 23/11/2020 09:29

Someone wanted out at volume, someone took the stock at volume. We will not know where the balance of power was. The trend tells us something. It appears upwards and intact.

[bamboo2] 23/11/2020 09:17

Pierre we are overdue a holding RNS or two. Huge volume has changed hands over recent months, so I can only guess there is accumulation going on, in the background, and when the order is complete we will get a note. I find the market confusing at times. If a large tranche goes through, as happened sometime last week with the 88m shares, even if it is a the kind of price level that could be interpreted as a sell, it still has to be paid for by someone else, or it's not a trade! I realise that market makers sometimes take on stock, but not £70m+

[pierre oreilly] 23/11/2020 08:47

No, in terms of the stock market, 'o' trades are either buys or sells, not both. The reporting delay means it's sometimes very difficult to determine whether any trade is a buy or sell, especially with the long delays for large trades. The trade status isn't public information and isn't published. Why we haven't had a holding rns is hard to fathom, but when or if we do, it'll be easy to see the trade status then.

[bamboo2] 23/11/2020 08:32

Pierre, surely all trades have both a buyer and a seller? One of the major forced sellers is out. I vote for Lansdowne. They are closing the fund that held IPO.

[pierre oreilly] 23/11/2020 07:44

Bamboo, could you explain your reasoning for making that assertion?

[bamboo2] 20/11/2020 19:42

Pierre, it's both.

[pierre oreilly] 20/11/2020 19:04

Why does everyone assume it's a sell? Trades over 5x nms are delayed. I'd guess (can't be certain) this was a buy sometime before being reported which has driven the price higher the last few days. We should get to know for certain when/if there's a holding rns.

[bamboo2] 20/11/2020 17:11

Mas, as Wetpantz says, it's nearly 10% of the co, so should generate at least one selling rns. Furthermore it would have to have been sold to at least three different new holders to avoid breaching the 3% limit for a buyers notification.

[wetpantz] 20/11/2020 17:00

Agree, Invesco & Lansdowne prob used recent price strength to dispose of their holding as they need to meet continuing investor redemptions. MM probably have some buyers lined up if they're willing to take on nearly 10% of market cap onto their books

[masurenguy] 20/11/2020 16:53

Unlikely to find out from an RNS bamboo, unless a key threshold was breached.

[bamboo2] 20/11/2020 16:48

Probably Invesco or Lansdowne selling. On this volume, Lansdowne would have sold out, while Invesco would retain approx 5% More interesting to know who is the buyer?

[bamboo2] 20/11/2020 16:22

£71,280,000 trades just gone. Anyone here going to own up?

[bamboo2] 19/11/2020 08:23

Mas, I have also just added. Fingers xx'd for the new trading range.

[p1nkfish] 18/11/2020 22:12

They would have to announce as a buyback occurred. I dont know when inflation will hit but no currency is doing much except eroding to help pay for the current mess. Taking stock off the market around here would be no bad thing.

[bamboo2] 18/11/2020 21:57

p!nk, I'm not sure inflation is an issue in the near or medium term. The co. does currently have authority to buy back up to 10%, and I had wondered if they would have to let the market know in advance if they had started? It would be good to know who is behind the buying in recent months. Obviously Tencent is a candidate.

[p1nkfish] 18/11/2020 17:09

We could hit 5%++ inflation. They need more appreciating tech to invest in. Fusion, Quantum? Both could swallow £50M type amounts else its a load of £10M types. Buyback a sensible way forward, clear out reluctant holders and allocate what is left-over.