Ip Share Discussion Threads

[bagpuss67] 08/8/2024 12:40

The trail completed in Jan.. So should have reported by now. I assume the later reporting timetable could also be to do with this.

[p1nkfish] 08/8/2024 12:37

In a downturn liquidity and low margin (borrowed money to invest) matter.
Someone might be under a margin call and out over their skis or need any liquidity they can get to cover demands.
Other areas of their portfolio might be forcing sales,

Sell the illiquid under performers first whilst you can rather than when panic sets in and they become no bid. The buyback offers a buyer of last resort.

As price falls first thing some do is ditch underperformers - also increasing selling pressure.
As it falls through some market cap limits some might then be forced to sell due to their mandates or as it approaches penny stock territory. Any tracker of the index will needto trim as % of the index falls.

At least a 1 for x consolidation will help get this out of penny stock zone.


Some might pull money out to invest in their listed holdings as more pure play.

I'm of the opinion this should be a private vehicle where a VC keeps an eagle eye on it.

[bagpuss67] 08/8/2024 12:11

Could the fall in share price be related to the delayed Leramistat read out? Big holding for IPO.

[bagpuss67] 08/8/2024 12:01

Ok thanks. I believe that sometimes they are cancelled but clearly not here/yet. I assume that in treasury though they still reduce the denominator in NAV/ share...

[keyno] 08/8/2024 11:55

Bagpuss Ref #3068: My understanding is the shares are not cancelled but held in Treasury. Not quite the same. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

[bamboo2] 08/8/2024 10:37

ghh, re, "Why are you interested/invested in IPO if you believe NAV this grossly over inflated?"

===============

I have always had an interest in "Tomorrow's World" type companies, and have been invested here on and off for years. There is still a long term investment in IPO held in a family account. I know quite a bit about the co, and have done well out of investing individually in the constituents. eg TRX, IUG, DNL,

I continue to hope that one day management will accept that their priorities differ from those of the shareholders. No-one can have issues with extra rewards for outperformance, but the current set up, where management benefits accrue irrespective of shareholders needs is clearly unfair to us.

I hope that the worthy ESG credentials of fairness, equability and duty of care will evetually be extended to shareholders.

[p1nkfish] 08/8/2024 10:25

No problem, just an example.

[palisz] 08/8/2024 10:18

Oh yeah... 10.89% goes down to 10.2% Sorry, good spot!
Really poor reporting

[p1nkfish] 08/8/2024 10:07

No, it reduced. Previous % didn't include IP2IPO % that IPO have voting rights for. Its in the small print.
Previous % in total was higher inc IP2IPO.
Another example of less than ideal reporting, now clarified.

[palisz] 08/8/2024 09:52

FYI... After the NOVO deal in Oxford Nanopore the stake held by IPO INCREASED to 96m shares or 10.2% valued at £115m or 11.3p per ONT

[ghhghh] 08/8/2024 09:36

bamboo2

Why are you interested/invested in IPO if you believe NAV this grossly over inflated?

[palisz] 08/8/2024 09:31

Don't disagree on the NAV, although to-date no disposals have been below the published number, But we do have a value for ONT, and for cash, leaving the remaining assets valued by the market at about 15p, someone else can do the calc. So even if you take a massive discount you can not believe that it falls anywhere close to this level. The meeting next month will I'm sure spend a lot of time on this. I have raised it multiple times with the CEO, admittedly last time was last year, and he always said that he believes they are fully justified as were always very conservative. They did not inflate values in 2021/2022 at the PE peak. I think they should mark down across the board, but if the sales / divestments come in at or above NAV, then we are wrong and he's right! I think the biggest issue is we don't know because the marketing / showcase of what's going on has been so limited! Even now I'd struggle to name more than 5 or 6 of the 90+ investments ! The meeting is not going to be dull !

[bamboo2] 08/8/2024 09:07

palisz, the problem with the buyback is the fact that the NAV is artificially inflated. It's way above the level the current market will pay for pre-profit story based firms typically found in the IPGroup p/f. The market is seeing cash draining out of the bank account in exchange for more illiquid assets, whose falling value may never be realisable.

[palisz] 08/8/2024 08:54

Do people on here really not understand buy backs??
Do they really think that buy backs are just to push up the share price?
Buy backs are accretive to earnings, they boost the NAV per share. They make your shares more valuable. Doh! For a company like IPO they are particularly value enhancing. Anyone with more than a few weeks view should realise that it is the best use of excess funds. The maths are simple.!
You could argue that Apple buying its shares on 35x eps is purely pumping the shares.
But when you are buying at a substantial discount the long term effect is 100% beneficial. Try doing a bit of research !

[wskill] 08/8/2024 07:46

I can see we have a seller dumping at any price which no company can do anything about ,But one thing they can do is change the management style it must be obvious to them by now buy backs are not working .
Its just a waste of companies funds losing value as the share price is falling save it for investing into start ups, think there is a lack of common sense being used by management.

[bamboo2] 08/8/2024 07:32

Bagpuss, major shareholders, and historical changes are in post 2. It may not be fully up to date, but will give you an idea.

Major shareholdings were removed from the co website when they 'refreshed' it.

I asked Liz V Adams to reinstate it over a year ago. She said it would be added back, but nothing has happened.

In the meantime you have to find the relevant section in the most recent annual report.

FT has a tearsheet on IPO with major shareholders, but this is fairly inaccurate.

[edit, it's post 2 you want]

[bagpuss67] 08/8/2024 07:18

On the subject of shareholders am I right to say they dont disclose their major shareholders on their website?

[p1nkfish] 08/8/2024 07:17

Requires action bb2, that's why.
Remember my early days comments on new managent?
Presentation new CEO gave was a clear indicator.

[bamboo2] 08/8/2024 07:13

ghh, If there's a big seller dripping into the market why doesn't the co negotiate with them directly? I'm sure there are plenty of brokers around who would be capable of facilitating some sort of deal.

Both parties could benefit.

[ghhghh] 08/8/2024 07:02

I've been piling in over the last few days. Looks crazy cheap thanks to a big seller exiting into a market seller.

We all know the basic - % net cash, 5 available cash, ONT stake and NAV looks solid on available info (see Oak Bloke).

And share buybacks at this discount to NAV is a no brainer.

Blaming the management is like kicking the cat. There's nothing they can do when a big seller exits....

Lots of other small funds in the same boat eg LABs, SOHO, DGI9 - Investec and Rathbones merger has caused a lot of damage

[ghhghh] 08/8/2024 07:02

I've been piling in over the last few days. Looks crazy cheap thanks to a big seller exiting into a market seller.

We all know the basic - % net cash, 5 available cash, ONT stake and NAV looks solid on available info (see Oak Bloke).

And share buybacks at this discount to NAV is a no brainer.

Blaming the management is like kicking the cat. There's nothing they can do when a big seller exits....

Lots of other small funds in the same boat eg LABs, SOHO, DGI9 - Investec and Rathbones merger has caused a lot of damage

[bamboo2] 08/8/2024 06:55

FOR RELEASE ON

08 August 2024





IP Group plc - Cash proceeds from exits tracking higher than 2023; intention to increase share buyback programme; notice of results



IP Group plc (LSE: IPO) ("IP Group" or "the Group"), which invests in breakthrough science and innovation companies with the potential to create a better future for all, is pleased to provide the following updates.

The Group announces that it intends to publish its results for the six months ended 30 June 2024 on Tuesday 17 September 2024. In the meantime, the Group is updating shareholders on portfolio exits achieved to date and consequential return of capital in line with its policy.

Following strong performance on portfolio realisations during the year to date, cash proceeds from exits confirmed or completed now total over £43m, a level that already exceeds the total for the whole of 2023.

The previously announced sale of Garrison Technology Ltd ("Garrison") to US-based cybersecurity firm Everfox is expected to complete during August. This accounts for the majority of the £43m proceeds noted above, with the balance received from the sale of holdings in a small number of portfolio companies, all of which have been completed at or above carrying values.

In addition to the above, the Group notes that Intelligent Ultrasound Group plc plans to make a 'material return of capital' following the announced sale of its Clinical AI business to GE HealthCare for an enterprise value of £40.5m. IP Group has a 20.8% holding in Intelligent Ultrasound.

As a result, in line with guidance given, the Directors plan to increase the Group's current share buyback programme by a further £10m. This will increase the current programme to a total of £30m. Since this programme was announced in December 2023, the Group has bought back 29m shares, approximately 3% of the shares in issue, for a total of £13m.

The Group also advises that it has yet to receive an update from portfolio company Istesso with regard to the outcome of its Phase 2b trial for Leramistat (MBS2320) in rheumatoid arthritis. Although receipt of this data is later than the Group had anticipated, this is not at all uncommon in complex clinical trials. The Group looks forward to updating shareholders when it is in a position to do so.


Further information on the publication of half-yearly results



IP Group's half-yearly results will be available via the London Stock Exchange's Regulatory News Service (RNS) and on the Investor Relations section of the company's website at www.ipgroupplc.com.



Members of IP Group's leadership team will provide a live presentation via the Investor Meet Company platform on 17 September 2024 at 09:00am.



Questions can be submitted pre-event via the Investor Meet Company dashboard up until 9am the day before the meeting or at any time during the live presentation. Investors can sign up to Investor Meet Company for free via:



Investors who already follow IP Group on the Investor Meet Company platform will be invited automatically.

[bagpuss67] 08/8/2024 06:30

I'm struggling with the concept that buybacks are not helpful. Isnt it a matter of fact that if shares are repurchased and cancelled that the NAV/share increases. OK if you can't get the share price up then so does the discount but if that discount is unwarranted then why is it not a good option for the company to acquire shares at that discount?

Any further comments welcome.

[bagpuss67] 08/8/2024 06:13

Fingers crossed for Istesso