Interserve Share Discussion Threads

[cc2014] 17/12/2018 22:56

I will take another look tomorrow if I'm in the mood. My intuition suggests that RMD Kwikform Holdings although called the Holding company isn't the holding company for the whole of RMDK.

[cobbles1] 17/12/2018 18:42

In fact must be

[cobbles1] 17/12/2018 18:42

Whyyy I think that's actually globally

[whyyy] 17/12/2018 17:37

Are those figures just for the UK business?

If the list of directors includes Messrs Breen or Pickard then they are.

[billtucker] 17/12/2018 17:36

Cc- something wrong there as everyone know RMD is profitable. Here is an extract relating to their 2017 half year performance

Equipment Services is the company's name for the RMD Kwikform business which creates temporary structures used in major infrastructure and building contracts. The Aldridge firm had a strong first half, matching its record revenue figures from a year ago with £111m in the first six months and adding £24.9m profits to Interserve's coffers.

[cc2014] 17/12/2018 15:57

So, how much is RMDK worth?

I went to look at Companies House. company 07234007. RMD Kwikform Holdings Ltd if I've got the right company

Profit in 2016 £19.8m
Loss in 2017 £0.4m

Shareholder funds -£0.4. Basically has £22m of assets but also has £22m of loans.


This wasn't what I was expecting to find at all.

[billtucker] 17/12/2018 15:38

Fenners- exactly not to mention how many times the associated exist costs have been increased. Fine example of misleading the market, bunch of liars. Hope FCA throws the book at them

[fenners66] 17/12/2018 14:56

We were told 2 years ago that EFW was ended so it was no longer an underlying activity and the losses could be ignored.....

[eodfire] 17/12/2018 11:58

Well, still plenty of "idiots" buying by the looks of it.

[tonysss13] 17/12/2018 10:24

the only thing IRV seems to have going for it is the fact that Dealy hasn't declared he's been buying for a recovery.

[fenners66] 17/12/2018 10:20

yes it happens

Alpha Pyrenees traded at varying levels for a year after the directors announced the shares were worthless and that all proceeds of sale of property were going to the bank.

[tonysss13] 17/12/2018 10:12

CC2014

it's not uncommon to see crazy price movements in situations like this. Plenty of mug punters who don't understand what a debt for equity entails for shareholders.

Afren traded around 10p even when the board had said there was little or no value left for shareholders. CLLN had a mad bounce even when the bonds were trading at a huge discount

[cc2014] 17/12/2018 09:47

I have to say I'm completely puzzled by the price action. I don't understand why anyone would buy it here. If I want to construct a case it goes:

RMDK sold to debtholders for say £200m but they agree to wipe out £100m debt at the same time, so debt reduces by £300m overall (it's kind of fair to shareholders as this way they would get the maximum £300m but they get the cash now).

Leaves £350m debt, which would cost say £35-40m in interest. RMDK contributes £37m EBITDA so would leave the remaining IRV with £55m EBITDA. £55m would just about cover the interest payments given CAPEX of £15m.


Now, if after this you can get a rights issue away for £150m, that would get the debt down to £200m and IRV is in a much better place. So, I assume buyers are buying in the knowledge they will have to take part in a rights issue.


However, and this is the downside, this assumes IRV has no further cashflow detriment from EfW, the other problem jobs and the Viridor settlement. This number comes to somewhere between say £50m and £200m depending on how you look at it.

I wouldn't be investing unless I understood these liabilities. Maybe others do understand them. What I do know is out of the 5 Efw, Viridor claim remains unresolved and not one of the other 4 have been handed over as fully commissioned. And it's 17th December now.


So, I remain puzzled as to why the share price isn't 5p. But it's not a day or two's aberration. It's definitely settled here. Strangely we don't have any RNS either buying or substantial changes in shorts. The shorts aren't closing and there isn't one party scooping up all the shares (unless it's a protected trade). And none of the long term holders sitting on huge losses are selling either.

So, the shorts still think it's going to say 5p, the longs still think it's worth more than the share price and none of the churn in volume is resulting in anything notify-able.

All a mystery to me.

[nudog69] 17/12/2018 09:39

Did say 15p ✌️313;✌️

[bookbroker] 17/12/2018 09:10

Hope folks not being sucked in by the price rise, just to get a debt for equity swap! Keep Out of this one!

[patience a virtue] 17/12/2018 09:07

Very quiet here, a sign of recovery? A week ago it was all doom and gloom, wipe out for shareholders, suspension, sell whilst you can, etc. etc.
You thought FT would be trustworthy!

[wbecki] 16/12/2018 16:22

James Henderson, manager of Law Debenture (LWDB) and Lowland (LWI) investment trusts, is among Interserve (IRV) investors whose holdings have been virtually wiped out by its share price collapse.



Plenty of so called professionals been caught out here(and at Carillion) it seems

[billtucker] 16/12/2018 09:04

I think RMD being handed over is very unlikely, but it also looks like they will be splitting construction from the busy ness.

[losses] 16/12/2018 08:20

Struggling Interserve may hand construction unit to lendersHttps://uk.news.yahoo.com/struggling-interserve-may-hand-construction-132300135.html

[boffster] 16/12/2018 00:22

I did have respect for CC's viewpoint but it is beginning to wane.

If he's valuing a business with a £50m+ bottom line at £200m then I think he's either smoking something or has an agenda.

[cc2014] 15/12/2018 23:09

Net debt as recent RNS will be in the range £625-650m by year end
Gross debt at half year was £810m ish.

[cobbles1] 15/12/2018 22:23

Cc2014, where did you find (or how did you come to) a debt figure of over 800m please?

Whyyy, selling RMD would be short term gain but long term pain. If they could have afforded to have done so, I'm sure they would have already.

[cc2014] 15/12/2018 16:17

Amazing. It's not worth £250-300m as they failed to sell it for £200m (or some reports as low as £150m) 2.5 years ago.

Anyways, I can see that the lenders would be happy to take it in return for debt as they are taking the best part, it's runs at a profit and they can sell it on in due course. Of course if they take it, what does it leave?

Say they take it for £200m. That would leave the net debt at £450m. The lenders take the best bit and how does IRV survive. Depends on the level of the haircut I guess.

Siemens are not the only one who won't give them credit. I know of one major subcontractor who won't work for them for the last 18 months.

[whyyy] 15/12/2018 14:34

Would this proposed "sell-off" be better news for PI's than DFE or the other scenarios debated?