Interserve Share Discussion Threads

[obiwoncanary] 19/10/2018 16:56

Beightspere still reducing drastically yet so goes south... I wish I knew what was going on here

[obiwoncanary] 19/10/2018 16:38

What a rubbish end to the week after all thenoptimism from Tuesday

[sbs] 19/10/2018 07:18

Thanks CC2014.

It looks like the debt is the reason for the low LWB share price. (Similar to IRV.) As soon as they are back into profit, the clouds could lift, but it looks like it will take some years to pay off the debt, particularly if their interest rate rises.

Personally, I wouldn't be paying a dividend, but then I'm relatively conservative financially.

[dexdringle] 18/10/2018 21:51

Surely you can't have a negative FCF unless you have negative cash flow. In which case the measure 'above or below 1' is irrelevant ?

[mrfixituk] 18/10/2018 21:40

Cash Flow to Debt Ratio
Cash flow is essential to any business; no business can operate without the necessary cash to pay bills, make payments on loans, rentals or mortgages, meet payroll, and pay necessary taxes. The cash flow to debt ratio, calculated as cash flow from operations divided by total debt, is sometimes considered the single best predictor of financial business failure.

Anything below 1 is not good. Interserve has a negative FCF to debt ratio. Oh deary me if you are long or have bought.

[cc2014] 18/10/2018 20:05

Sure Low & Bonar LWB

[sbs] 18/10/2018 19:20

If there is a forced seller, it is often a time to start building a position, as they always run out eventually... Are you able to name this company?

[aendjo] 18/10/2018 18:35

Relax CFC.

Google Mister Market.

The value of your position has not changed one bit (unless you’re desperate to liquidate your shares).

[sbs] 18/10/2018 17:51

Why does it bother you what prices other people offer each other?

[cfc1] 18/10/2018 17:20

obi - you miss the point..the shares went from 50+- to 56 in one day never mind the 58 and then today drop for no reason or logic or volume. The markets are manipulated and these MMs have deals with fat city brokers traders HFs and probably exchange brown envelopes in winebars across London!!!

[obiwoncanary] 18/10/2018 17:06

This is being played and has been for 12 months. HF will close and I think January will be very rewarding for long term sufferers like myself

[cc2014] 18/10/2018 16:56

And it was only 1500 odd shares from memory

[obiwoncanary] 18/10/2018 16:51

That 58 was misleading as it was a UT

[cfc1] 18/10/2018 16:40

I think the MMs and this share needs investigating! How can we have such MASSIVE swings on NO volume? I think its about time someone (with contacts) the SFA need to be alerted to the way HFs and other manipulate share prices with 5-8% swings at the drop of a hat?!>!
up yo 58 the other day now after hours at 52-53?!?!?!

[cfc1] 18/10/2018 14:33

Interserve were winning business without proper governance - thats why they brought in a senior player to address. SO they will not be going after loss making business AND gov't needs to STOP bullying suppliers and going for lowest option and forcing unrealistic margins.

[eodfire] 18/10/2018 14:32

Why won't they be doing any more work for PNN in the future? New management and a new way in which the company is going to operate. Old mistakes won't be revisited.

[cc2014] 18/10/2018 13:38

Morning. I know a little about this area of construction as I'm invested in NMD who have picked the business up. It's specialist. Nothing that any large construction company can't do but you need to be set up to do it. There's a margin premium because it's slightly specialist. Not a large premium, no more than 1%.

This should not be loss making business for IRV and would be something you wanted to retain.

However, Pennon were the Client and they were never going to retain the business. In reality despite having a contract which continues for a while I doubt they have been doing very much. Currently Pennon have the choice of IRV and BBY to do the work. It wouldn't surprise me if BBY are doing 75%+ at the moment. I don't know that, it isn't a fact, but if you were Pennon you would do anything you could to avoid giving IRV work after screwing up so badly on EfW

The impact is probably therefore not at great as it first appears, other than IRV won't be doing any work for PNN for the next 10 years but we already knew that

[aendjo] 18/10/2018 13:05

I believe the facts are clear.

[fenners66] 18/10/2018 12:46

Whilst we agree about the reasons why losing loss making business can be good - if they FAIL to get the price up to where it is not loss making (not failing to get the price up is what salesmen and accountants are for !) that does not mean than losing the business is Not LOST business.

Also from this distance there is little way for us to see which lost business is loss making and which is lost for other reasons.

It may be that the company is incapable of making profits on tender values where other companies can make a profit and that is the point where they have to look at themselves and find out what they are doing so wrong.

But equally it may be that they screw up too many times and the client has had enough.

[windrushg] 18/10/2018 12:27

There's no point retaining business if there is no or inadequate profit it it. Those days are over now for Interserve. That was the flawed business model that killed off Carillion! The board are doing a great job IMO and worth every penny of their remuneration package.

[fenners66] 18/10/2018 11:52

Windrushg - Have you ever worked in a commercial business where products or services are sold ?
Or are you choosing spin instead ?

Contracts - the world over for almost everything , once agreed are for a limited time. So if you supply cornflakes to tesco or service motorways for whoever the contract will run for say 6 months or a year or whatever.

The sales department will know that as the incumbent they are expected to retain the business upon contract renewal. They are pressured to go and find new business BUT they are expected to retain the business upon renewal.

If the production department has failed they know there is every chance they will not be awarded the next renewal business . If the production dept says they can no longer make cornflakes or the accountants say that they have worked out they cannot make any money and need to increase prices - but that leaves them uncompetitive - even taking the decision to not tender - because they know they will not win - the NON- RENEWAL is still LOST business.


Ask the salesman what his sales were in the year they had the contract vs the year without it (all other things being equal ) and there you have it - at the base level LOST business.

[aendjo] 18/10/2018 07:58

@Fenners - apologies, but your last couple of posts are nonsensical, in my opinion.

IRV has been on the H5O / SWW platform since 2009 and, by the way, continues to be on it to complete various jobs until the end of the contract period, which is 2020.

I would not expect IRV to have applied for the 2020-2025 tender as they are in fierce litigation with SWW parent company, Pennon, over the Glasgow EfW legacy.

If you want to call it “lost business”, feel free to. I just wanted to clarify the facts and to explain why - contrary to your factually incorrect statement - it’s not a “lost existing contract” and why there was no need for a RNS.

Good luck all.

[windrushg] 18/10/2018 06:33

I beg to differ.As spelled out previously, terms and conditions for contracts from now on are subject to tighter disciplines under the company's newly drawn up policies. No contract has been lost! If both parties cannot agree terms to renew a contract, that does'nt equate to a contract being lost. The last contract in force will be fulfilled. Any renewal would have been a NEW contract so it can't be lost if it was never agreed upon in the first place! Doh!!!! What is your IQ score again according to the Wechsler scale?