Intelligent Energy Share Discussion Threads

[ibug] 18/8/2017 18:44

AT THE MOMENT THE HIGEST GROWTH SECTOR IN THE FUEL CELL MARKET IS INDEED STATIONARY POWER, it grew at 75% last year and promises to double this year. And that sector is the target market for IEH.


They should do very well from their FCM 800 series product range which is actively in production.

[investorfc expert] 18/8/2017 18:17

But if additional funding not brought in, then I don't know what may happen?

[filster] 18/8/2017 17:28

with regards to automotive - they changed from researching Evaporatively Cooled HFCs to using Air Cooled HFCs in that application.

They are now almost a one trick pony.. They have Air Cooled HFCs and that's it - but they have the lightest HFC on the market and the best performing HFCs on the market.

In a way this is good, as they are focused but hopefully they are focused in the right way... Only time will tell.

[investorfc expert] 18/8/2017 17:12

If ieh had billion dollar IPs then why they took loan from meditor last year with 13% interest? They could have off load some IPs then and there instead of seeking loan. Selling IPs is not an easy take then. Toyota is the market leader and they have developed their own technology (mirai). Ieh has changed their target segment multiple times

1. Initially Indian telecom and deal with GTL.
2. Then revised strategy with product based approach. Because engineering and R &D revenue is not more than 5 mn per year.
3. Then they declared that due to money shortage, they would not focus on automotive but in London Olympics they demonstrated FC in London taxis.
4. Then finally deal announced with drone.
5. Then they said that back up power system they would promote in the range upto 20 kW. In whole year, except luxfer, no any order with high volume booked, so in last result they indicated that many companies are taking interest in IEs evaporated cooled technology and they may again turn back to Automotive if funded project they may get.

Still they are not pretty sure where is the market actually. Ballard has done in EC technology, plug power has done in material handling equipment business, bloom energy has recently secured deal with equinox data centre company to supply them power. But so far in the world, no fuel cell company has done in back up power market in the range upto 20 kW on volume basis.

[ibug] 18/8/2017 16:38

On Americas OTC market buying continues for IEH with a 300K Buy + a few a lot smaller...that makes a good few million bought this week which can be considered a surge of interest from a handful of buyers.




investorfc expert 18 Aug '17 - 17:12 - 3017 of 3019 0 0 (Filtered)

A THREAD RODENT

[perrydevere] 18/8/2017 16:33

Cheers ibug. We know the EU's roads will increasingly be fossil fuel-free so there's obvious growth here..

Trump has been on about punishing China for not respecting IP,. That could help companies with rich IP portfolios.
?

How many new cars are sold in the world every year? I do think EVs will get some of the emission free car market but hydrogen will prevail with off-peak renewable energy being used to electrolyse water into hydrogen and oxygen. Just thinking about my own vehicle use, an EV is not an option

[ibug] 18/8/2017 16:23

This is interesting about the demise of Lithium Batteries. It will ensure HFC's will catch up and become mainstream.

Electric Vehicles No Threat To Oil Prices Anytime Soon

Meanwhile, there is speculation whether the world has enough lithium to build all the batteries skyrocketing EV growth would ensure. One analyst has predicted lithium shortages as soon as 2023 and have already delayed Tesla’s output.

[ibug] 18/8/2017 16:13

This article from last May answers some of your questions:

5 Clean Energy Innovations That Could Transform Our World


In Europe, fuel cell production facilities will begin pumping out 50,000 fuel cell stacks by the year 2020, making United Kingdom-based Intelligent Energy the market leader in bringing the green technology to the masses.

“Hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles are available now, but to continue to drive customer adoption, we need to ensure future fuel cell stacks are robustly industrialised and remain cost competitive in the future,” said the company’s Manufacturing Head Richard Peart.

[perrydevere] 18/8/2017 16:03

That's a good point, once drone manufacturers exhibit their IEH powered models and start taking orders, IEH's own order book book should benefit.

Meanwhile, back on the car front, the EU funded programme IEH are leading that aims to see 50,000 HFCs for vehicles made by 2020, it'll be 2018 in 4.5 months so shouldn't that report soon?

How much is the HFC in a car likely to be worth? How much is a car engine in a new car? £1,000? £2,000? More? So there will be £50 million to £100,000,000 worth of HFCs to be manufactured for the EU by 2020? Anyone any ideas about this? Maybe more value? What chance the HFCs will be made ny SMILE FC System Corp's production line especially of they are producing economies of scale making for others? If the HFCs are to be made in the EU"9, where will that be and by whom?

[ibug] 18/8/2017 12:13

This years Interdrone Expo will be especially interesting because a number of drone manufacturers have bought development/ evaluation packs from IEH. It will be interesting if some of those customers exhibit new H2 powered drones in their latest offerings.

[ibug] 18/8/2017 12:09

Upcoming events next month:

September 2017

InterDrone SEP 06
Venue: Rio Hotel, Las Vegas, United States
Date: Wed 06 - Fri 08 September, 2017

Low Carbon Vehicle (LCV) Event 2017 SEP 06
Venue: Millbrook Proving Ground, Bedfordshire, United Kingdom
Date: Wed 06 - Thu 07 September, 2017

[ibug] 18/8/2017 11:58

Marketing has never been one of the business strengths as they have been at least a year behind the market sector curve until they made a much more concerted effort to strengthen their sales team over the last year.

And now, a year on from reorganizing the business plan the company are starting to see results just as Ballard did a year ago. The two company's have very similar histories and plans; Ballard today are a thriving business after almost folding twelve months ago.

The highest growth sector in the drone market are UAV's used by property, pipeline and grid surveyors and insurance company's who use high resolution optics and need at least a hours worth of flight time. IEH need to penetrate that market more aggressively along with home gas to power systems.

[filster] 18/8/2017 11:33

Whilst Drones capture the imagination and headlines the reality is that adding HFC to them will add 3-5k on the price so they are only every going to be limited to high end devices which cost between 5 and 10k.

They need the static power generation or large scale generation of vehicles for the company to start to make proper money.

I'm fairly certain that in the last 2 years or so IEH have said that they are moving away from an IP/licensed based model. Of course they aren't going to turn down money from such deals but they see the future of the company in manufacturing HFCs of a modular design - so they can be small and ultralight or bigger and also heavier to be able to sell them B2B. The modular approach means that they don't have to be re-certified or re-approved as they are using the same PEMs just in a different configuration or chassis depending on the intended end application.

It's a massive shame that they are class leading on so many fronts in this area and have lots of great ideas but in the end they have to make sales, pure and simple. They seem to struggle with this bit or is the market nascent?

[ibug] 18/8/2017 10:53

3 Emerging Fuel Cell Technologies You Should Know About

With fuel cell electric vehicles coming to the market, many consumers think that fuel cells are only used in cars.

Think again.

Fuel cells can be scaled to meet many different energy conversion or power needs. From primary stationary power and combined heat and power applications to powering cell phones and laptops, fuel cells are proving to be a versatile technology.

Here are three emerging technologies already reaping the benefits of fuel cells.

[ibug] 18/8/2017 10:44

The company also stated more than a year ago that R&D JV's will only be taken on if the company gets a commercial deal once the development project has competed.

The mass production JV with Durum Uni on behave of the EU-Toyota should result in IEH producing fuel cells for cars.

[ibug] 18/8/2017 10:34

The company have an extensive IP portfolio of about 1900 patents or patents pending which is the second largest fuel cell patent library in the world.

But, the company cannot survive just on R&D projects alone so they created a product line of low power systems ranging from 1W to 20KW aimed at portable and stationary applications.

And they are having some success which is apparently growing and producing revenue which in turn reduces cash burn.

[perrydevere] 18/8/2017 10:28

Investorfc expert, isn't IEH's business model to get others to use their IP and less about actually makig FCs though they can if required? Suzuki paid quite a bit to license non-exclusive access to IEH tech didn't they? IEH's income has never really come from manufacturing has it?

[ibug] 18/8/2017 10:25

IEH are delivering the FCM 800 series fuel cells to Japan and probably California as they said international orders were being taken. They have sales outlets in many countries including India.


Ballards are working in the high power fuel cell market supplying 200KW systems for trains and busses.

WHILE IEH ARE FOCUSED on lower power applications although they have developed 60KW and 100KW fuel cells they have decided not to market those products which leaves one to believe they are looking to unload the high power systems IP.

[investorfc expert] 18/8/2017 10:18

In IEH, probably they are manufacturing balance order of luxfer for 300 modules. Even in drone market so far no big deal they are able to crack. I visited India, Automotive market is already picked on battery segment, so no big order can come from India, infact Ballard has handed over their DP& G business to one Taiwan fuelcell company as they don't see any business from India because lithium has covered telecom and Automative both, now only leftover is China and Japan. In China, most order has gone to Ballard for FC velocity engine and back up power business is not much like Automotive and locomotives. In Japan, I am not aware of anything that what ieh is exactly doing except demonstration.

[ibug] 18/8/2017 09:42

THAT IS JUST ONE OF THE OPTIONS and it is a likely scenario. The Ballard - Volkswagon deal was worth $100 million USD and that got Ballards out of trouble, today that company is thriving.


investorfc expert 18 Aug '17 - 10:18 - 3002 of 3003 0 0 (Filtered)

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[perrydevere] 18/8/2017 08:19

So, if I get this right ibug, so long as IEH are naking the interest payments to Meditor re the CLN deak, they csn "do a Ballard" with some of their IP to raise the money to pay off Meditor's loan? I woukd assume, if cash is a probkem that is what Martin Bloom is lookng at. Meanwhile, expertfc investor, your inside knowledge at IEH, what's the latest?

[investorfc expert] 17/8/2017 21:27

Ibug, if everything is so positive at IEH, then why Barclays has predicts -39% downside. Why they termed as overweight. Is there anything to worry? What does it indicate? Pl guide

[ibug] 17/8/2017 18:22

The IEH IP is estimated to be worth about a billion dollars in a non stressed sale to the Fuel Cell tech industry users and the numbers of those in this sector are growing in all energy related sectors exponentially as more fossil fuel based businesses change their strategy to include renewable energy sources.

The stationary and portable power industry is now taking off; it was worth 500MW last year and this year growth is expected to be more than 100% as the market changes direction.

So there are plenty of business opportunities for growth going forward, but marketing and market penetration is the key issue for IEH; they appear to have started to become successful.




investorfc expert 17 Aug '17 - 21:25 - 2998 of 3000 0 0 (Filtered)

investorfc expert 17 Aug '17 - 21:27 - 2999 of 3000 0 0 (Filtered)

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[ibug] 17/8/2017 18:10

Ballard Energy leased out their 100KW FC design to Volkswagon on a three year non-exclusive arrangement last September --- perhaps IEH can do something like that with permission from Meditor because they only have a Vanilla Repayment CLN and interest payment are still being made, so no problem with Meditor agreeing to a lease or sale agreement. Ballard got an estimated $100 million USD from that deal.

But IEH have far more IP than Ballards --- some 1900 patents or pending patents in the mix. The second largest patent library for fuel cells only rivalled by GM who have 2200 patents but many of those date back 50 years. Thus IEH is a world leader because their patents are current and the only FC business that can boast a 98% operational efficiency; other designs only reach 60% efficiency, making IEH a world tech leader.