Indigovision Share Discussion Threads

[fangorn2] 04/4/2016 10:59

Rather small token buy from the new CFO.

Probably better if he'd waited till he was behind his desk, had a overview of the business and bought a larger token!

[topvest] 03/4/2016 18:25

They are very exposed to a lowball bid with all this selling by New Pistoia. Maybe the company will buy some back with the cash on their balance sheet if New Pistoia get really desparate. Really silly to accumulate 30% in an illiquid company and then try and sell them in the market.

[spooky] 03/4/2016 18:16

paulypilot - Director share purchases?

[paulypilot] 03/4/2016 15:25

... also, the highest ever print on IND shares was me selling 100k at 1000p - about a 25p price premium at the time. I knew the buyer was desperate to buy, so I just named my price, then let them come to me.

Of course, it's working the other way around now for the seller.

Tough, that's how markets work. Supply & demand. The share price just indicates what retail investors & market makers are prepared to trade at. That may or may not be the price that large shareholders are prepared to trade at.

PP.

[paulypilot] 03/4/2016 15:16

The seller doesn't know something we don't. He's a muppet in Switzerland, who got lucky on some previous positions, and now seems to be liquidating in the most stupid way possible - i.e. trying to get rid of a 29% holding by dribbling it into the market.

I have some experience of this - if you check the RNS, I bought 8% of IND back in 2003/4, and still have just under 3% indirectly. When the time comes to sell, you ring up Brewins (now N+1), and say you have a block of 100k shares, and leave it with them. When a buyer comes along, Brewins ring you up, and broker a deal, trying to screw both sides for commission - thousands of pounds for just making a couple of phone calls. That's what pays for the fancy office - useless parasites.

New Pistoia is acting like a distressed seller - trying to dribble out stock in the market, and having to put out RNSs with each 1% reduction, just tells me that this guy shouldn't be managing money. What a complete fool. Everyone is just sitting & waiting for him to blow up & liquidate the lot at 100p or less. Then it will bounce to 200p once the muppet seller is cleared out. Free money maybe?

I got into a mess in 2008 with my IND holding, as it was leveraged. Terrible mistake. So I've been there, and carry the scars. What I did was to Place the stock in big lumps - 100k at a time. The price was 450p at one point, and I sold 100k shares at about 400p to HH I think? Can't remember exactly.

They were the only buyer in town, so I took that price, after trying to jiggle it up, of course. They replied take it or leave it, which is what you do when you're the only buyer in town.

This muppet seller in Switzerland is trying to sell stock in the market, then putting out RNSs for each 1% increment. He's obviously in serious trouble. Tough - don't play the game, if you don't know what you're doing.

I can Place that stock at 100p, but have to be careful about concert party rules. So it would have to be done in dribs & drabs.

Short term - things look terrible here, and the share price is almost certainly going down. Medium term - the company seems to be doing alright, has moved back into profit, has a fab Bal Sht, so I'm trying to relax and think of lying on a beach, despite searing pain from share price torture, which may continue.

Sorry if the above is not what people want to hear, it's just my view of where we are right now.

Regards, Paul.

[exotic] 03/4/2016 13:12

"So what a cheap end Chinese producer offers today in its fundamentals, IND were offering two or three years ago."

I wouldn't say that's true.

What IND were producing two or three years ago was still a reliable complete end-to-end solution. Camera resolution was pretty poor. Night vision on the very popular 8000 and even latter 9000 series Day/Night dome cameras was absolutely terrible compared to their recent 11000 HD series, for example.

Today most cheap Chinese producers can also offer reasonably good individual cameras with good image quality. But they still don't work well integrated with anything else, let alone as a complete and reliable system. Okay for residential users with single cameras, but will never be suitable for business use. They will also have a long list of features thrown in for box-tick marketing purposes, with little regard to how accessible or practical those features were implemented.

[cjohn] 03/4/2016 11:25

And there's the rub. The offer of all firms is improving markedlly, principally because of advances in software. So what a cheap end Chinese producer offers today in its fundamentals, IND were offering two or three years ago. How many companies actually need absolute cutting edge technology? I suggest increasingly few, as the offer improves year on year. so competition will be based increasingly on price.


This is only as much as the company itself says. Gross margins are under pressure but are still fat enough to attract in new compeitiors. And the problem is, becuase of IND's overheads - 23 offices for a turnover of about 33m sterling - IND needs to maintain such eye-watering gross margins. (and, of course, local competitors in each market. And IND is scarcely large enough to benefit from serious economies of scale.)

So the economics here are poor.

The other question is is there value in the assets? There is beginning to be in my view, but a cursory look at the balance sheet shows a substantial deferred tax asset in non-current assets, which I'd be inclined to discount. The discount to current assets is interesting. Personally, I'd be inclined to dscount inventory as well, however: as exotic himself says: older versions and products are frequently discontinued.

[exotic] 03/4/2016 09:51

"The tech Indigo use is surely very dated these days?"

The answer is obviously no; it's constantly updated, new products are introduced all the time while older products and versions get discontinued. New technologies are always explored eg. CCTV on drones, body worn cameras, 360° cameras, 5K cameras. I own a lot of IND kit myself and the differences between each generation is truly staggering. Last year IND spent $4.3m on R&D.

[fangorn2] 02/4/2016 17:23

@Orinocor,

"You may think its very dated and if that's your opinion then good luck. Maybe you really do know more than anyone else."

I was asking a question - didn't the question mark at the end indicate such?

The tech Indigo use is surely very dated these days?

Ergo I am not making a claim of such,but asking a question.

[orinocor] 02/4/2016 16:29

You may think its very dated and if that's your opinion then good luck. Maybe you really do know more than anyone else.

Ive copied below what IndigoVision say about their product and technology. I know this is a sales pitch but we can get the gist.


About IndigoVision

IndigoVision designs and manufactures high performance, intelligent video security systems for large scale and complex security installations. From video capture and transmission to analysis and storage, IndigoVision networked video security systems provide the best quality and most secure video evidence, and use market leading compression technology to minimise network bandwidth usage and reduce storage costs.

IndigoVision's technology is ideally suited for use in mission critical facilities such as government, oil and gas, transport, cities, industry, education, police, prisons and casinos to improve public safety, protect assets, develop organisations' operational efficiency and support law enforcement.

IndigoVision has sales and support teams in 23 countries and operates through 17 regional centres, in Edinburgh, London, Paris, Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, Dubai, Mumbai, Singapore, Macau, Shanghai, Sydney, Mexico City, Toronto, Bogotá, New Jersey, Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo. IndigoVision partners with a network of some 600 trained and authorised IndigoVision resellers to provide local system design, installation and servicing to IndigoVision's system users

[fangorn2] 02/4/2016 15:54

"It's infuriating that the value of my existing holding is being trashed by a gigantic muppet (New Pistoia)"

What's the reasoning behind them selling? Perhaps they know something you don't PP. Tad disconcerting they own 27% of company so definitely advisable to not stand in front of that train.

The tech Indigo use is surely very dated these days?

[paulypilot] 02/4/2016 15:34

zoolook,

The price is currently being driven down by New Pistoia - the biggest shareholder, who is acting almost suicidally, by dribbling stock out into the market, instead of trying to Place his shares.

The market has seen the RNSs, and buyers are now (understandably) pulling back, and waiting for either the overhang to clear, or him to stop selling. That's certainly what I'm doing - I want to buy more stock at the current level, but there's no point in paying 135p if a seller has 27% of the company, and is dribbling stock into the market. I'd rather wait to buy at 100p.

It's infuriating that the value of my existing holding is being trashed by a gigantic muppet (New Pistoia), but that's the situation we're in.

The only thing is that the overhang might clear suddenly, then the opportunity to buy in any size you want will have gone. So it's a question of weighing up whether to back up the truck now, or wait a bit longer to get them even cheaper.

Regards, Paul.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 02/4/2016 13:48

I would buy at 100p, even though I have already got a few SNX in my SIPP and would prefer a bit more diversity.

These are already looking cheap just on the balance sheet.

Arthur

[zoolook] 02/4/2016 13:00

Article in Herald. They contacted Richard Farmiloe but dont seem to have got much out of him other than he thinks the shares are undervalued.



Paul Scott on twitter has suggested the shares could go down to 100p with the overhang before a rebound.

[orinocor] 01/4/2016 16:02

Are you thinking of the kits that come in a box with a web-cam and some software that let you watch your house while you are away? I think IND do more than that.

[cjohn] 01/4/2016 10:43

Hi Orinocor and Pauly Pilot,

Thank you for your comments. Orinocor, you take the company line that IND's integrated offer is particularly attractive. I accept that that is what the company say. But is it actually the case? I am doubtful. And even if it is the case, will that gain market share at profitable margins. offerings from other companies have improved, and I wonder whether the extra quality IND offers (claims to offer)is actually going to win lost ground or new ground.

Hi Paul, the fact that gross margins are at 51% doesn't really show that this particular market isn't becoming commoditised. Operating margins is what counts and the fact, for example, that they have to have multiple offices - and consequent high overheads- is a comment on the fierceness of competition across the countries they operate in.

That having been said, they are beginning to look cheap on asset grounds, which is what interests me.

[gbill11] 01/4/2016 08:26

There is not bad news behind the share price fall so I'm in at 134.9p. My thinking is if things were bad they would not pay a dividend.
The ex div date is 22 APR

[exotic] 31/3/2016 10:20

Richard and New Pistoia need to get together and agree a price at which to swap and get it over with.

[spooky] 31/3/2016 07:53

Pauly - Just to repeat myself, why are the directors not buying shares, they own very few.

[paulypilot] 31/3/2016 02:04

Farmiloe also seems to be ex-Brewin Dolphin - IND's longstanding house broker. Worth noting.

[balcony] 30/3/2016 09:23

Richard farmiloe is part of Sorbus partners who deal with high net worth individuals

[grahamburn] 30/3/2016 09:06

As an aside, 5 April is not necessarily a significant date vis-à-vis tax planning so far as a fund such as New Pistoria is concerned, so joining the two together in the same post isn't relevant. Having said that, there may well be tax planning issues so far as individual shareholders are concerned in the next week.

[kiwihope] 30/3/2016 09:04

hxxp://www.companydirectorcheck.com/richard-winston-farmiloe