Imagination Technologies Share Discussion Threads

[sheep_herder] 13/4/2017 08:51

Borromini, IMG have always had a technical advantage over Mali. That hasn't stopped them being outshipped 3:1 had it. When you're trying to win business and all you have to barter with is the pricing, you can fill in the rest.

But again, you're missing the point that whatever MTK do, it will not make up the shortfall in revenue or prevent staff leaving.

[tsmith2] 13/4/2017 08:37

hoping we can a similar move to yesterday's...buyers dictate..

[mister md] 13/4/2017 08:21

/uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/7digital-7DIG/share-news/7digital-Group-PLC-Agreement-renewal-contract-ac/74334113

[jamesrowe] 13/4/2017 08:14

Adventurous - I can't view the RNS at the moment. Are you able to post a summary here? Thanks!

[adventurous] 13/4/2017 07:37

I see IMG are raising funds - from todays RNS:

In addition, 7digital announces that it has agreed to acquire the FlowRadio(R) technology, platform and customers from Imagination Technologies Group plc. FlowRadio(R) is an internet radio aggregation service which offers instant access to over 25,000 stations worldwide. 7digital signed an agreement in 2015 to license the FlowRadio(R) technology and platform internationally on behalf of Imagination.

The commercial terms are confidential but, as part of the acquisition, 7digital will be acquiring responsibility for three staff and all current contracts from IMG. FlowRadio(R) is also expected to contribute to the Company's 2017 revenues.

[borromini1] 13/4/2017 03:11

Sheep_Herder - Does your logic stack up for ARM to be demanding more royalty than IMG when we look at MediaTek's own judgement on the differences between IMG's Rogue PowerVR GT7400 Plus in the Helio X30 and ARM's still best available Midgard Mali T880 in the Helio X20 ?

Unique GPU Design: Deep MediaTek-Imagination Co-operation

The fully customized IMG PowerVR 7XTP-MT4 @ 800MHz is designed for lowest power usage while still delivering incredible performance. It saves up to 60% power versus while increasing performance by up to 2.4 times compared to the Helio X20.

hxxps://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mediatek-helio-x30

So MediaTek consider IMG IP on 10nm FinFET to provide a 240% better performance and 60% power saving over the best ARM IP on 20nm. Would you claim the process node size accounts for the entire difference?

A further point, ARM are claiming that their new BiFrost architecture is only 1.5x the performance of the best available Midgard architecture devices. From this it seems the old IMG Rogue architecture is already superior to ARM's new yet to be implemented BiFrost architecture, and that's not even considering IMG's new Furian architecture improvements.

On the basis of ARM's own performance expectations is there not therefore ample scope for IMG Furian to comprehensively replace ARM Mali across the board?

Anandtech
ARM is expecting G71-based devices to offer around 1.5x the performance of current, T880 devices

hxxp://www.anandtech.com/show/10375/arm-unveils-bifrost-and-mali-g71/5

[jamesrowe] 12/4/2017 19:54

I notice that the shares were heavilly shorted on 2 days last week. Perhaps the recent rises are just the institutions buying back shares that they shorted??

[brucie5] 12/4/2017 16:57

There we go.. Once the £1 support has been tested, the gap is often looking to be filled in my experience.. It could go up as far as 150 without even touching that 10 day ma. A 'flash crash'.

[tsmith2] 12/4/2017 16:38

Looks like buyers were in complete control. May be set for a decent rally...

[tsmith2] 12/4/2017 16:38

Very good finish

[mister md] 12/4/2017 16:37

interesting 'UT' trade at close:

16:35:24 106.5000 1,155,567 UT

Could see a gap up in the morning imho

[rossy73] 12/4/2017 15:34

Agree with your viewpoint Mister MD. Imo in a distress sits scenario the major indicator to be aware of, either on the day of the news or max a couple of days later is a rns notifying an alteration of their holdings. In the case of img, there haven't been any such notifications - one way or the other. Strong and often targeted AT selling is being absorbed despite volleys being launched regularly at different times of the day. Suggests to me that there's strength behind this either in a position being built, or trading within this range prior to new information being available is the new norm

[sheep_herder] 12/4/2017 14:48

When you're trying to win business from someone who has taken the majority share in the market, you don't go in asking for a larger royalty than they are already paying. So no, I don't think ARM would have been under 5 cents. ARM had the upper hand. Mediatek have, and will continue to, chop and change based on each product.

But Mediatek alone will not be enough to keep the company afloat. Even if they get enough revenue to break even for a few years, they won't have the staff or funds to invest in the next generation of products. That's the key fact, not current licenses or prodcuts or even Furian. Must be a pretty sorry place to be working right now.

[mister md] 12/4/2017 14:42

As stated earlier this week, I feel the shareprice is in a bottoming out process and given so much gloom has been priced in there could be some upside to be had here imho

[borromini1] 12/4/2017 13:11

Sheep_Herder - So ARM would have likely been offering under 5 cents? And you would consider it more accurate to state that MediaTek have selected PowerVR for the Helio X30 along with ARM for the 10 core CPU? The mix of PowerVR and Mali used in MediaTek SoC's being reliably listed on their wikipedia page? And I know you might choke on this bit but, can we reach consensus on the up market aspect?

[sheep_herder] 12/4/2017 12:40

5-10 cents I would have thought but who knows how hard IMG had to bargain. MediaTek haven't switched.

[orkney] 12/4/2017 12:27

Rbalakrishnan, good post. Re 27262

[borromini1] 12/4/2017 12:21

Sheep_Herder - thanks for the response.
In your own time ... What roayalty rate figure or range would you gauge as being more realistically achievable? And do you give credence to the notion that MediaTek switched from ARM to IMG as one aspect of aiming to move up market with Helio X30?

[rbalakrishnan] 12/4/2017 12:16

Mister MD - Masayoshi Son likes platform leaders. However, it's debatable whether IMG's PowerVR can be classed as one today.

Interesting quote below about Son's strategy. Gives hope that if IMG can hold onto MIPS then 'one day' in the future the industry might truly need an ARM alternative.

"Mr. Son cited a U.S. oil company and fervently explained his marketing strategy that he will aim to win the top share in the market and overwhelm his rivals, and then raise prices gradually to generate profits," Fujiwara recalled.

[sheep_herder] 12/4/2017 11:50

Ah Orkney, you're back. Perhaps you'd like to answer my question about how you think IMG are going to supplement that lost 50% of their revenue if they're not generating new license/royalty revenue? New business streams perhaps? Selling cream teas?



borromini, you'll be very lucky to see 20p royalty rates from anyone other than Apple. Remember that IMG were losing slots to ARM hand over fist so how do you think they competed in this space to win - they dropped their costs.

[mister md] 12/4/2017 11:42

Would Softbank be interested - they paid 23bn for ARM ?

[rbalakrishnan] 12/4/2017 11:36

Orkney - Yes, that was an offer from Rambus. Management however turned it down. HY described them as a technology patent licencing business. Sounds like they would have been a good fit now. The other obvious candidates are one of the EDA companies like Synopsys or Cadence having already acquired Arc and Tensilica respectively.

[orkney] 12/4/2017 10:32

With img gone, the likes of Arm & Qualcomm would only take the opportunity to hike licence & royalty fees. This scenario, imo, only increases the chance of a takeover.
Was there not within the past 2 years, a £3 a share offer from a US based company?
However, the price would now obviously be much less given the Apple situation.
Happy times, NOT!

[colsmith] 12/4/2017 09:50

borro - interesting view of things.

I still wonder why APPLE are going to take design of all the piece parts in the stuff they make. I wonder if this is a smoke signal of a bigger problem for them. After all they had 3 quarters of lower revenue until December; but in the last part of the year SAMSUNG had a battery problem that might have made APPLE figures look better than they really are. I would have thought the key issue for APPLE is to design (they don't make anything I believe)the kind of stuff that excites customers. I guess customers don't care if its an APPLE designed CPU, GPU, wireless chip etc or ARM QCOM etc. OK they save royalty but not much good at saving that if sales start to decline. On the other hand maybe folk believe its fashionable to have the ICON of an Apple on the back and will still buy whatever, who knows.

Clearly have to wait and see how it pans out but maybe after Steve left they are losing what customers really believe is worth spending for a high cost device that in reality does no more or not much more than the Chinese lower cost stuff.

Perhaps the great and good (as Rob has sussed out) would be better at looking at APPLE - there's a story there somewhere. IMG current problem is in lights but maybe APPLE is there but in the dark. But what would I know.

[brucie5] 12/4/2017 09:45

Hear hear! Fighting talk, Borromini.