Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Hml Holdings LSE:HMLH London Ordinary Share GB00B16DFY89 ORD 1.5P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 33.00p 31.00p 35.00p 33.00p 33.00p 33.00p 0 08:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Real Estate Investment & Services 20.9 1.3 2.6 12.7 15.01

HML Holdings Share Discussion Threads

Showing 601 to 624 of 625 messages
Chat Pages: 25  24  23  22  21  20  19  18  17  16  15  14  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
18/6/2018
11:53
Some chunky trades going through in the last few weeks. Results next week.
jeevsje
30/5/2018
08:45
SteMis, I do not think the net debt position is a worry as HMLH throw off cash. I also think the earnouts are not too onerous. The last balance sheet showed £1.24m of earnouts. Since then they have bought Faraday and there is a potential earnout of £1.1m there, so a total of c£2.3m to pay. That is just one year’s free cash flow. So, there is a bit of debt, but hardly life threatening. I think the reason there have been no acquisitions is because someone ( I hope the non Execs) has said “for goodness sake sort out the mess you already have before making any more acquisitions”. They need to sort out the offices, the regional groupings, the IT systems, senior non Board management. Then, when the whole group is on the same system, consider acquisitions again. The original plan seems to have been to make acquisitions, then let them run as semi autonomous units. But this has just led to a mess of different standards, different systems. The bigger the Group has got, the more complicated it has got. Hence, no economies of scale. In fact, by trying to adhere to the highest standards ( which no one else bothers to do), HMLH has shown significant diseconomies of scale: the bigger it gets, the more difficult, and costly it is to do business, the lower are margins ! Do I want to be invested in a business which gets more and more expensive to run ? Up to you Rob to sort it out
graham1ty
29/5/2018
20:06
It will be interesting to see what the net debt figure is. At the half year it was £2.21m. Although there's another £1m+ of profit, I expect offsetting it there'll be an adverse movement in working capital (which was historically low at the interims) and further earn out payments. I suspect one of the reasons there's been no acquisitions, is that they just don't have the cash...
stemis
29/5/2018
19:30
David, at the last meeting there was much sucking in of teeth, and concern about the additional costs of operating to the highest standard. We know a restructuring is taking place, and they flagged data protection costs. Those will be in this reporting period, so another half year that is not “clean”. We will have to wait until 1H 2018/19 which will not be reported until November.....many will have given up the will to live by then. I hope Christopher Mills is throwing his weight around
graham1ty
29/5/2018
17:55
I sometimes wonder whether they knew that big central overheads and systems upgrades were coming a few years ago and so decided to go on a big spending spree to help spread the cost across a much larger base and help camouflage the likely drop in annual profits ? That said it has hopefully all now been invested into the business and good updated systems and key hires all in place so any more additions to the group and any organic growth should be much more profitable from here. Mind you the acquisitions have stopped and nothing announced in the last year so we will see what that acquisitive spree was really worth and whether it has delivered any organic growth on top.
davidosh
29/5/2018
15:10
SteMis, they do have a lot to prove. I have added up the gross cost* of all acquisitions since listing and it is £15.7m. With the current market cap at c£15.5m, and HMLH IPOing at £2m, the acquisitions have “lost value” under HMLs tenure (* that is gross, assuming all earnouts paid). The reported gross margin in 1H (12.6%) was at its lowest level since 2012. Margins improved 2010-15, but have collapsed since. Combine those two paras, and in the last three years, HMLH have spent £7m on acquisitions, adding £4.4m in revenue, but generating less than £100,000 in operating profit ( £616,000 up to £713,000). That means that of additional revenue, only 2.2% has been converted to operating profit, and at a cost of £7m !! As a % of the money spent, 1.3% has been converted to operating profit. Of course this is not a problem just in the acquisitions, but represents a deterioration across the whole group. However, the question does remain: was it worth spending £7m to add just £97,000 to the bottom line ? Staff numbers have soared, so revenue per employee was £45,200 in 2010 and is now £47,800. This is a real fall when adjusted for RPI. So HMLH cannot run the enlarged group with fewer people. They just keep adding headcount. With the current c500 employers, that is c£2500 pre tax profit per employee. How do you run a business when margins are so tight ? As they have been so acquisitive, they report an adjusted eps, stripping out amortisation (ie the depreciation charge of all those acquisitions). Then you can get a rising eps number. However, statutory, reported eps......at 1.2p for 1H are the same level as 2013. Despite all those acquisitions, statutory eps are flat. And all of this is higher cost within the business. They flagged HR, then IT, then Compliance. All additional costs. Now they have warned of GDPR cost and reorganisations costs. So, there are more to come. I cannot see gross margin, or operating margin getting back on track in the near future. The only plus is that HMLH is so cash generative. It throws off cash ( all used though for these acquisitions). They have produced £1.76m, then £1.9m, then £2.1m of free cash flow in the last three years. However, ask the question again: would Shareholders be in a better place of the last three years of cash flow (c£6m) had been retained on the balance sheet, or even paid out as a special dividend ? Spending £7m has added nothing ( yet). I hope I am wrong in all of this and they shoot the lights out at the results. The problem is, it is a while since HMLH surprised on the upside.....which is why the share price is down where it is
graham1ty
28/5/2018
23:19
Are you buying then? I was waiting for some cash to top-up. Can you wait until I have the money please?
jeevsje
26/5/2018
12:11
Just to put flesh on that. When I bought in Jan 2015 at 34p, H1 2014 profit (before amortisation, options, interest) was £795k. They had net borrowings of £441k and about 37m shares. Now 2.5 years later, according to the trading statement they will make £1,192k (same basis as above) in H2 2017. Debts are probably about £2.2m and there are 45.5m shares. At 34p that's about a debt free multiple of 9.15 So they've spent all the retained cash profits for the last 2.5 years (c £3.0m), plus £1.75m in extra debt, plus another 8.5m shares (= £2.9m at 34p) on acquisitions. About £7.65m to raise profits by about an annualised £800k (before tax). If we hadn't have bothered, we'd be making £1.6m profit (assuming zero growth), have around £2.5m cash in the bank and only 37m shares. Even on an 9.15 times taxed multiple we'd be looking at a share price of 39p.
stemis
26/5/2018
11:29
Yes, I'd probably take an offer at 45p. I hoped for more originally (having bought at 34p) but I'd take some convincing now by management that we were going to see economies of scale feed through to margins. All they seem to be doing is borrowing and issuing shares to buy companies which turn out to be worth no more than they paid for them. If they just kept the cash/didn't issue the shares instead I'm not sure the share price would be any different...
stemis
25/5/2018
16:28
Apologies but there is no way I would accept 45p as a bid after all these years of building the company up into reasonable scale. If the benefits of all these acquisitions come through then this company should be delivering better margins and on a p/e of 12 at least so 60p is my minimum target price. I am a buyer to try to ensure no cheap bid goes unopposed. The results are only a month away and I will arrange a presentation with management.
davidosh
25/5/2018
13:57
Hello - some excitement :o))
rivaldo
18/5/2018
12:02
The Private Rented Sector (PRS) model is becoming increasingly popular in the UK and with it provides a need for residential property management. I am hoping that there is some reference to targeting the PRS market within the forthcoming results as it is not something I have seem them specifically comment on before.
rp19
01/5/2018
22:24
Takeover at 45p is not good enough. We want 60p.
jeevsje
01/5/2018
15:42
I see Harwood on the shareholder list here. They have form in taking companies cheaply off market with management support. I wouldn't be at all surprised if thats what ends up happening here. I don't think there would be a huge amount of dissent with an offer around 45p. Harwood would then weave their magic and float it a few years down the line again no doubt. Something needs to happen. Long term shareholders must be looking for a catalyst and a reason to own the shares.
horndean eagle
01/5/2018
15:03
Hopefully a run past 40p is on the cards, now the momentum as changed.
igoe104
01/5/2018
13:24
Finally ticking up, and on tiny buying. Hopefully this means not much stock available.
rivaldo
30/4/2018
12:37
Yeah... I'm holding too and wouldn't sell at this price but when I bought 3 years ago I thought we'd be much further ahead than we are...
stemis
30/4/2018
12:31
You forget SteMis, it takes time and effort to realise fully all those acquisition synergies. Or so they keep telling us.... I'm happy to hold, and likely add some more, as I can't see much if any downside, whereas it's just possible we could see a 45p-50p share price quite quickly if the upcoming results are bullish and Finncap's forecasts show a decent increase over the now historic 4.1p EPS.
rivaldo
30/4/2018
11:21
I agree it's positive that they have met brokers forecasts and I agree they look cheap but the performance is hardly spectacular. Unless I'm mistaken, what they are revealing is that they have managed to increase adjusted PBT from £1.8m to £2.2m. However on 1 April 2017 they spent £2.3m (+£0.6m performance related) on FPM. On 2 March 2017 they spent £1.0m (+£0.7m performance relates) on G&C On 2 February 2017 they spent £0.3m (+£0.2m performance related) on GP All of these should pretty much have contributed a year's worth of performance in 2017/18 compared to 2016/17 (there's a few others which contribute a bit more). So £3.6m to £5.1m of spend to increase PBT by £0.4m. Where's the synergy benefit? Where is the growth in the rest of the business? All it looks like we are seeing in the increased PBT is the contribution of some fairly fully priced acquisitions.
stemis
30/4/2018
11:19
Cheers Rivaldo, like you said these are cheap.
igoe104
30/4/2018
11:18
They haven't made any acquisitions in the last year which helps explain why they might now be doing better. Hopefully they keep it that way. This company should really be run for cash and pay most of its profits out as dividends. Would get a decent re-rating if they went down that path.
horndean eagle
30/4/2018
08:36
Finncap retain their Buy and 48p target today - almost 60% upside - along with that 4.1p EPS and 0.4p dividend forecast. That's a historic P/E of 7.4. I assume they'll issue this year's forecasts when the full prelims are released. They also point out: "The statement also implies a strong profit performance during the second half of c. £1.2m at the adjusted PBT level, compared with £1.0m in H1 and £0.90m in H2 the previous year. This better performance over H1 was driven in part we believe by lower costs associated with acquisition integration." Perhaps HMLH are indeed finally seeing all those trumpeted acquisition synergies and savings finally coming through.
rivaldo
30/4/2018
07:07
Short but relatively sweet trading update today confirming trading in line for last year - that means 4.1p historic EPS per Finncap, with a 0.4p dividend. Looking extremely cheap at these levels imho: "HML Holdings plc (AIM: HMLH), a leading provider of property management, insurance and ancillary services to residential property blocks, is pleased to announce that the board anticipates being able to report trading in line with market expectations for the 12 month period ended 31 March 2018. The board looks forward to releasing results in relation to this period on 26 June 2018."
rivaldo
04/4/2018
11:43
I wonder who sold the shares?
3800
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