Hayward Tyl Share Discussion Threads

[pugugly] 28/2/2017 07:15

Debt can kicked down the street for another month ! Kicker is that not quantification as to what is meant by long term financing structure.

". The repayment has now been extended from 28 February 2017 to 31 March 2017 to ensure a suitable long term financing structure is put in place to support the longer term prospects of the business. "

[cockerhoop] 27/2/2017 22:25

Pavey Ark,

I didn't suggest HAYT wasn't a good (or bad) buy at the current levels, merely pointing out that raising the funds to pay off the RBS debt had been far from easy.

Likely to be an RNS tomorrow or March 1st to clarify matters further.

[cockerhoop] 27/2/2017 18:07

Pavey Ark, Rhomboid,

Good discussion but I do have to disagree with PA about not having any issues raising the cash.

On 21st December 2016 they reported that they'd raised £2.1m at 7% to be paid back in 2020. They were attempting to raise £3m from the accompanying narrative. On 31st Dec they repaid the £0.6m due to RBS under the agreed schedule. They then failed to make the 31st January payment (suggesting the remaining £1.5m had be absorbed into working capital), rescheduling by a month and on 13th Feb raised a 1 year (contrary to their aim of matching long term investment to long term debt) at 6.75% which they handed straight over to RBS. Tomorrow £2.4m is due along with the final payment of £0.3m at the end of March.

This is not the action of a company having no trouble raising the money imo.

[pugugly] 27/2/2017 18:06

Pavey Ark & rhomboid - You both make very valid points. As you can see from my earlier posts I think there might be value here - There certainly appears to be a top parity business BUT I have great difficulty in assessing the value of th coy to a potential investor.


Half year loss of 9.3p PER SHARE.
Market cap today only £22 million.
Net debt at half year (30th September) £18.3 million - So very highly geared
Interim loans carry a very high coupon
Orders book appears to be lower than they need to break even.

Anyway all should be revealed tomorrow when they are supposed to make a repayment to the bank. Chance of details of a discounted placing - Odds ?

From a recent proctive note. (But they are paid by the coy I believe)

"The group is operating within its current borrowing facilities and continues to have constructive discussions with its bank, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), with respect to the repayment of £2.4 million of short term banking facilities, currently extended to 28 February 2017.
The group is also talking to RBS about ensuring a suitable long term financing structure is in place to support the longer term prospects of the business.
House broker finnCap said guidance of break-even at the EBITDA level suggests an adjusted pre-tax loss for the year of £4mln, which is the broker’s new forecast."

[pavey ark] 27/2/2017 17:37

rhomboid, thanks for that and yes I always thought that TPG was a winner and it has much further to go.
I had a look at your posts on HAYT and your rather glowing appraisal of the management teams abilities did go south rather rapidly but I have to give you every credit for biting the bullet and selling out in mid October just before the results.
80p is looking very good now.
I have no knowledge of the management but it looks to me they are producing a rather messy picture of the company and it's finances but perhaps for a very good reason.

This short term loan note programme does look like a begging bowl approach but they appear to have no problem raising the cash and who wouldn't put up cash at 6.75% over one year.

My reasoning here is that they see the company hitting this low point and with the rapidly rising order book they are pretty sure they can ride it out.
Their mistake may have been not to raise funds at 80p but (famous last words!!) it looks like they certainly don't want to issue shares at 40p.

Even with the debt , which in reality isn't that high, this company has a depressed t/o of £60m-£65m and an order book that could touch £80m soon, all with a market cap of £22m !!

Come on, no guarantees in shares or life but this has to be worth a punt.

[pavey ark] 27/2/2017 16:20

Picked up on this today and spent a couple of hours bringing myself up to speed.
Yes management seem to have dropped the ball a bit and never good to say you expect £80m revenue the come back and say that it will be in the range £60m-£65m but there has to be a time when the punishment handed out by the market is sufficient (too much ?).
The order book looks good and could improve further.

I certainly haven't gone in big time but the risk/reward ratio looks good.

I had rule that I'd only invest in companies with net cash but in this case the debt looks reasonable and I think investors have been spooked by the reference to final dates for some debt repayments that are obviously imminent.

[escapetohome] 27/2/2017 12:04

Why not just put a few hundred in ? With the aim to double your money?

If you lose you dont lose much at this price , hopefully unless it goes bust

[meijiman] 27/2/2017 11:49

Where -the bottom? Wonder if this level is a buying opportunity?

[p1nkfish] 27/2/2017 11:28

Are we nearly there yet?

[solarno lopez] 24/2/2017 15:27

OH yes it can ESCAPE

[escapetohome] 24/2/2017 14:39

I bought a few hundred pounds worth as a complete gamble.

A company that has survived since 1815 producing a quality product surely cant go bust.

The govt stepped in to help RBS now surely it is RBS's turn to help out correspondingly.

Dont let this great british company struggle.

[pugugly] 24/2/2017 12:05

Current deadline next Tuesday 28h Feb - he lack of news (or leaks) is deafening.

"The Group is operating within its current borrowing facilities and it continues to have constructive discussions with its bank, Royal Bank of Scotland, with respect to the repayment of GBP2.4 million of short term banking facilities, currently extended to 28 February 2017, and to ensure a suitable long term financing structure is in place to support the longer term prospects of the business. "

Agreed re "long term prospects" provided srengthened balance sheet -

[meijiman] 24/2/2017 11:09

Whoever is advising this company should be fired.

[pugugly] 24/2/2017 10:21

SP action (to me) as continuing to fall appears to indicate massive dilutive corporate action in the pipeline - "Just reading the tea leaves but I know nothing" If I was not worried about what may be about to emerge might consider having a medium term gamble at these prices BUT if a placing is in the pipline might well be at a very significant discout to current price of about 40p and a buy at this level (with hindsight) would have been a disaster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pugugly] 22/2/2017 16:59

thorne3:> Spot on about customer worries - Would I be confident in placing a massive mission critical order with a coy with current balance sheet? - I would certainly think twice and worry about what would happen to my job if all went pear shaped.

[thorne3] 22/2/2017 16:43

It would make a lot of sense for a placing of say £5m of stock to be arranged at this point in time in order to take out the Bank's short term facility of £2.3m and to provide additional working capital.This would not only restore confidence in the share price which is now becoming heavily oversold but also encourage customers who might be having doubts about the viability of the Group to place orders.It seems very surprising to me that the Directors of HAYT have not taken this course of action already.

[jl9] 22/2/2017 15:36

Now a tasty morsel for MEGAcorp.

[pugugly] 22/2/2017 12:22

Share price continues to fall - I suspect an iceberg sell in the background as transaction prices for those ADVFN indicates as buys do not make sense to me against prior sells marked at 42p

Could it be that a placing is being worked ??

Thoughts ?

[rogerrail] 21/2/2017 11:42

A book and fill of just £16m orders was required during H2 to hit revenue above £60m as £21.3 was already in the bag at the half way stage. This appears reasonable albeit that orders would have to be for "near term" delivery, ie aftermarket.

Significantly though, at the end of December order book had risen 14% from the HY to £54.6m, now it has dropped to £52.2m, not encouraging!

On a positive note the low £FX should result in a higher order conversion rate of what is a very substantial pipeline ... if you believe what the company says.

[nickk1] 21/2/2017 11:33

Haywood Taylor now ripe for a takeover approach. How sad that would be for this British company with a great future.