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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Hargreaves Services Plc LSE:HSP London Ordinary Share GB00B0MTC970 ORD 10P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -10.50 -2.32% 442.50 440.00 445.00 460.00 440.00 455.00 20,881 16:35:02
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Support Services 204.8 14.4 50.8 8.7 143

Hargreaves Services Share Discussion Threads

Showing 2076 to 2096 of 2425 messages
Chat Pages: Latest  85  84  83  82  81  80  79  78  77  76  75  74  Older
DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
30/11/2020
15:57
Post 98 That's Lignite, iirc,not proper coal. Post 99. No I don't know much about the German operation, they seem very confident, but then again they seemed very confident about Belgium (iirc) years ago and that didn't work out too well in the end. I just hope this venture is profitable in the short term. Post 100. That was exactly my point. Many of these old OCC sites are in the wilds, often only half reinstated, and their value as potential wind farms, or for leisure pursuits, or farm land, will never be much. Chalmerstone was another that I vaguely remember where I think HSP partially took over a derelict site. I think an extension to the adjacent Benbain site was the incentive, but the bulk of the area was left derelict and effectively unusable, I believe.
muckshifter
30/11/2020
14:52
Muckshifter you know what the carbon crusher venture is in Germany & what the odds are for it being profitable for HSP ? In the accounts & RNSs it is imo mentioned only at a top level, assuming that everyone already knows what it is all about.
smithie6
30/11/2020
14:48
I'm not knowledgeable about the coal sector or its history but you wrote "Dalquandy was the biggest OCCS in Europe" ...I thought the biggest was a big site in Germany, which is still operating I understand....close to a power station & using conveyer belts to move the coal
smithie6
30/11/2020
11:29
Muchshifter wow, you've known the co. for a long time ----- ...the bod I dont know their performance very well, but the chairman & the land devel. directors (joined in last 24 months) look experienced & have good track records 3. "reinstatement" ?? of what ? 6. 'good dividends in 2021' ...yep, fingers crossed the repeated statement of this by the bod will turn into hard cash in our bank accounts !
smithie6
30/11/2020
09:07
Well done for investigating the origins of the JV Smithie6, I was tempted to read a few Annual Reports to find out, but resisted the temptation. I don't remember Hargreaves ever owning Hatfield, so will be interested in answers they give you about the JV. If I had to guess, I would say, from what you came up with about Waystones early involvement in the road, that when the colliery owners collapsed for about the third or forth time iirc, and the tip slipped (again iirc), the local authority somehow took ownership and Waystone ended up with it, rather than HSP. Incidentally, as I've been very bearish on this share for about ten years, and began posting negatively here probably since the day after the Blackwell take over, perhaps I should clarify my current interest. Three weeks ago I bought a few HSP shares for one of my adult kids. That was an intended relatively short term investment as I'm still not particularly impressed by the board, but I think the shares should do quite well for the short term future, for these reasons:- 1.Surely they will finally manage to get completion on the first two Blindwells sales by Christmas, with the corresponding cash inflow - if not the shares will suffer. 2. There has been a bigger Blindwells plot (15 acres iirc) up for sale for a year now. My expectation is that this would sell quickly if completion of the first two sales occurs,ie. I think the prospective house builders, local authority and service providers (gas, water , sewers, etc) are all being cautious about settlement risk, so once the first two plots complete it should mean that the issue has been resolved. 3. Coal sales from opencast stockpiles should bring in welcome cash, although I'm not sure that this will be up to projections, and reinstatement cash outflows are not clearly explained with the possibility that they may surprise negatively. 4. If Blackwell are ever going to make any money, it should be early next year in the early stages of the HS2 job, together with the probability of settlement cash from some of the £11m+ claims outstanding, even if the settlements are individually poor. Positive cashflow again. 5. The German subsidiary is making lots of bold predictions which should mean good cash inflow. 6. Provided trading updates stay positive, the prospect of big dividends next year should enhance the attractiveness of the shares. So, I'm hoping for a 50 - 60% profit for my daughter over the next six months.
muckshifter
29/11/2020
18:47
a -ve comment, to give a little balance ! not so impressed with the bod's handling of options & imo the options deals do not comply with the recommendations/guidelines in the UK that exist for options (but noting they are recommendations & I understand that there are few, or no, rules) a) seems like options after exercising, minimum of 3 years after award, can be sold immediately; I dont agree with that. At many companies the shares then have to be held I think, such as to a 5 year time from award to cashing in;ie. hold for >=2 years after exercising. b) seems that standard practice is 10p/share as the exercising price. I dont like that & would prefer it to be the share price at the time of the option award. To align the interests of that person with the interests of shareholders, that the share price rises. I recall the scandal at Persimmon, dirs awarding themselves excessive benefits from bonuses (1 got £82million ! & I think then stepped down, with his pockets full !!) c) I didn't see easy visibility of the performance criteria (ok I didn't see any being stated with the award of options. imo transparency on options. 0/10. d) it seems that the std. culture is that ppl receiving options do not own shares. imo that is wrong. imo any/most staff member getting options should be required to hold a similar number of shares to options, or some %. e) std. culture seems to be to give options to "many" ppl doing financial jobs. Are they "bean counters" ? Counting the beans that result from the people doing the work. If so then the leaders/directors of the workers/projects should imo be being given the options/incentives & not the bean counters. The ppl running projects & making key decisions about projects (which affect the resulting profit) should be incentivised/rewarded in some way imo if they do a very good job & not the person that adds up the numbers for how much profit/loss was made. f) numerous option awards to the CEO But he owns about 8% of the company. millions of pounds I assume he also gets a good remuneration, of pay, pension, car, private health care etc Does he really need options as an incentive, otherwise he won't bother very much ??!!
smithie6
29/11/2020
17:00
try 1947........ Re- rating coming in my opinion Tiger
castleford tiger
29/11/2020
15:42
Smithie6: You do have a point about the 320p price. You could argue that the rise from 240p in Nov 2019 to 320p in Feb 2020 was due to the market thinking some land deals were getting finalised. Then came Covid19. Now these same deals might well be getting near finalised again (perhaps more than one deal) so 320p does seem to be quite a realistic price. Perhaps a lot higher if there is more than one deal progressing.
netcurtains
29/11/2020
14:56
surely a lot more ppl following me than following Simon !! (if only !!) ----- I guess that 2 dirs buying have also helped the shareprice, (with 1 putting in ~£110k !!, a serious chunk of change) with some possible buyers deciding that that was the push they needed to finally buy ...& making some possible sellers change their minds & not selling ST coverage (I often buy similar stuff to ST, we both look at the numbers & we are both interested in decent value & hopefully having some downside protection) If he could tip it every week that would be nice !! :-) ===== it was about 320p before the virus crisis, hopefully the share price will be back there, as a first stop
smithie6
29/11/2020
13:59
I think the share was tipped by Simon Thompson in the IC.
arthur_lame_stocks
29/11/2020
13:47
"that road happening is part of the reason imo for the recent rise in the share price, coupled with news for the Blindswell site...both are moving forward" hi Smithie, I think the recent rise in the share price is due in no small part to you becoming a one man share ramping machine, you do seem to have brought the company to the attention of momentum investors with the whole herd stampeding this way. 3800
3800
29/11/2020
12:42
interesting btw, imo that Weystone got the planning permission for the road crossing the site in 2009 (according to info I saw on the web) & just about to be finished/opened in approx. Jan./Feb. !! (real up to date data/info I don't know, actual date will be what it is...& is subject of course to any problems or weather delays etc) that road happening is part of the reason imo for the recent rise in the share price, coupled with news for the Blindswell site...both are moving forward
smithie6
28/11/2020
20:07
ok good idea
smithie6
28/11/2020
18:25
Why don't you ask management - I am sure they will be happy to talk you through the structure of the JV
harrogate
28/11/2020
18:07
Hatfield ...I don't know the history...but all the text says that the project land is owned by HSP but being developed by the JV where HSP has 50% & not 100%. I'm interested to know why. The 32 hectare warehouse plot was sold for £25 million. Payment is subject to things like the road to it being made. (which should start soon imo if not already started). HSP loses £12.5 million by having a 50:50 JV for land they own 100% of. I'm keen to find out what Weystone did for their £12.5million part it ?! HSP provided the land & Weystone ??
smithie6
28/11/2020
16:18
You seem to be muddling things up a bit there Smithie6. The two sites are very different. One is a colliery, ie. a deep mine, and the other is a backfilled opencast. The expertise of Waystone has nothing to do, and is not to my knowledge involved, with Blindwells, where settlement is the danger, and I doubt if Bellway, the local authority, or anyone else, are easily accepting the risk of settlement. That is the reason for the high preparation cost and very probably the multiple missed HSP predictions about Completion dates, area preparation dates, etc. at Blindwells. Hatfield was a colliery. The mined seams will be many many times deeper than those on an opencast site, will be perfectly surveyed and recorded, and will therefore be easily dealt with in the unlikely event that future settlement is perceived to be a problem. The expertise I was writing about in terms of Waystone’s contribution to the JV is much more varied, and includes amongst other things dealing with contaminated land (part of the Hatfield site is, I think, colliery tip which will contain multiple heavy metal contaminants, lousy PHs etc) and more importantly the expertise in getting such sites through planning permission. Having spent my working life dealing with “Geology experts” as you call them, with the most successful sites I ran being those where I disagreed with them, in various parts of the world, and was proved right, I think I understand the Blindwells situation reasonably well. PS. How did HSP get involved in Hatfield. Are you sure it wasn't taken over by the JV, rather than HSP. I don't think HSP ever owned the mine as a working mine and have a vague recollection of a tip slip after it was closed - perhaps the JV took on remedial works for possession.
muckshifter
28/11/2020
15:43
sure HSP might have decided in needed to get surface/site prep. skills from outside of HSP, or a skilled partner to reduce risk but I cant yet see the justification for giving away 50% of the land value, but then we haven't (I think) had visibility of what the conditions were. maybe Weystone is putting in a wadge of cash or paying the first X million of the project costs
smithie6
28/11/2020
15:37
Bernard Schreier & Weystone personally I'm not in the slightest convinced that he/Weystone are the only people on the planet that know how to build on different surfaces (the world is full of foundations & surfaced experts & geology experts - for withstanding earthquakes - to build massive tower blocks on land that is not solid - to fix oil rigs to the 'earth' under the sea sure, the cashier at the local supermarket wouldn't know how to do it but people with degrees & PHDs in it, & > 10years experience definitely do. & they don't ask for 50% of the land value as their fee ----- & if Bernard Schreier is/was a smart wheeler dealer buying & selling second CAT equipment ....it doesn't look like he has a degree in geology or in foundations or land preparation but I assume/hope ! that some of his staff do ! (but phps that skill is provided by the big constructors such as Bellway, since if their houses suffer from cracks etc due to instability of the foundations "they" build then they would quickly get a bad name & not be able to sell houses)
smithie6
28/11/2020
15:25
interesting
smithie6
28/11/2020
12:45
Maybe our ceo made fantastic decisions buying these open cast mines a decade or so ago. So far sighted they were bought for their building development potential.
meijiman
28/11/2020
11:36
Yes CT, I thought I'd remembered correctly. I was very impressed at the time by that development on a severely contaminated site I was familiar with, and wondered who owned Waystone. Finding out that it was a Schreier family business was not much of a surprise as I had watched Bernard Schreier since, I think it would be the 80s, when he was a big second hand Cat dealer. IIRC, he used to buy up plant from sites, do it up and then sell it at a good profit, and I worked out that his opposition ie. Levertons, Finnings etc, official cat dealers, could not compete with him. Later, again iirc, he started buying up sickly opencast coal operators, and again I wondered how he made a success of them. But I never found out if they were just undervalued in terms of the amount of plant they held, or if they had undervalued remaining coal, overvalued reinstatement provisions held in special accounts, under measured and valued spare parts for heavy machinery, or in the case of private OCCSs, land which had great value potential if reinstated in the right way. But I was sure he had an angle. Fast forward to yesterday's conversations on this thread and you can see where my take on the expertise of Waystone, and the benefit to HSP of the JV came from.
muckshifter
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