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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Hargreaves Services Plc LSE:HSP London Ordinary Share GB00B0MTC970 ORD 10P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.0% 435.00 424.00 434.00 427.00 427.00 427.00 4,247 16:35:24
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Support Services 204.8 14.4 50.8 8.6 141

Hargreaves Services Share Discussion Threads

Showing 2051 to 2074 of 2450 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
27/11/2020
12:17
hxxps://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/18899806.latest-plans-town-centre-blindwells-unveiled-next-week/
terry236
27/11/2020
11:52
nice to see the share price up again today (the mkt phps likes the news that the cross site road at the Hatfield site is being built & phps 30% has been tarmac'd.....& hence a feeling that that project is now going to move forward...(& that the £9 million from Bellway (Blindswell project) & £25 million to the JV for the Hatfield project should be received in coming months, a step change from only paying out for site infrastructure (~£17 million at Blindswell ! over last 3 financial years) to seeing big payments being received)... coupled with the +ve boost to mkts of the plans for injecting the population with vaccines & the Covid19 crisis ending at some time in 2021....improving the environment for the market for ppl buying houses (& property companies buying land from companies like HSP to meet that demand for houses)
smithie6
27/11/2020
11:51
hmmmm not sure feeling I get is that the co. would see it as commercial info which it doesnt have to reveal but shareholders can ask. ----- interesting that Weystone got planning permission for that cross site road back in 2009 !, even though not built until the present weeks, 11 years later so, one guess is that the 50:50 JV agreement might go back to 2009 or before ??
smithie6
27/11/2020
11:01
Waystone might well have good experience & knowledge but lets be honest here, we are not talking about building the first nuclear bomb ! putting houses onto land, it's been done before I believe !! & for any projects, sure the project needs the right skills to do different jobs, but so what, you go out & get competing quotes to provide those skills, be it earth moving (which HSP are highly skilled at themselves), putting in sewage, gas pipes, street lights as a land owner you don't give 50% of the land value to say the sewage pipe installing company just because the sewage pipes are important/vital perhaps Waystone have to pay for a big mass of costs such as project roads, sewage pipes, etc etc ?? ----- well, the company is majority owned by big external stakeholders such as IIs so I guess the 50:50 JV for the Hatfield site must have been a correct decision, since if any stupid major financial decisions were made the director responsable would just get removed by the company owners (which is not the bod)
smithie6
27/11/2020
10:50
Smithie6, Waystone puts in a lot of expertise, imo (and no doubt originally some cash to balance the undeveloped land value). I have a feeling that Waystone was the key to the development of the severely contaminated land next to the M62 at junction 31 or 2 near Castleford where there is now a big leisure / shopping complex, so their expertise in all aspects of planning approval, remedial works, etc, is valuable. Interesting stuff about the M18 link road, I thought it was just from the development to the M18, not right through the site. Again, Waystone will have had a big hand in getting that commitment from the local authorities. PS. 50 /50 is the end result, so that means 50% of the eventual profit to Hargreaves.
muckshifter
27/11/2020
09:55
muckshifter "The Schrier (Waystone) / Hargreaves JV at Hatfield colliery, or Unity as they call it, is a 50 /50 JV" You know how this works ? Hargreaves is putting in to the JV a massive plot of land with planning position for 3100 houses & 60 hectares of commercial use. That has a high value, over 100 million pounds...so I can't see how the JV can be 50:50 unless the other partner (Waystone) contributes a similar value/amount. What has Waystone put in to the JV ??! imo they can't expect 50% of the profit from the land that someone else owns (Hargreaves) !!... (the £25 million that will arrive for the 32 hectares at Hatfield site ....what % of it will Hargreaves get ??, noting that Hargreaves owns 100% of that land) anyone know more ?
smithie6
27/11/2020
09:49
the link road across the whole site is budgetted/contracted at £16.7 million (is it about 2 miles long, & it needs a bridge over train line & that is obviously expensive) & I've seen info that says that the JV part of that is ~£3.7million, if my memory is correct from yesterday. it's a public road contract so the info is on the net ---- cost of privately funded road to go to the planned warehouse on the sold 32 hectare site ? no idea but I would guess 1-2 million might cover it. depends if it has to have lighting, pavements; & depends if it has to go around 3 sides/borders of the sold site (multiples the total length needed) or just to the closest corner ..my guess is that it would have to go along at least 2 sides (1 long side & 1 short side) it only has to go to the first (closest) roundabout after the junction 5 on M18, between the new roundabout & the junction is already there now, or 95% there and mostly paid for with public money.
smithie6
27/11/2020
09:38
I can tell you that :-)
smithie6
27/11/2020
08:05
That's a valiant attempt at ascertaining the property value of Blindwells and Hatfield, Smithie6. The Schreier (Waystone) / Hargreaves JV at Hatfield colliery, or Unity as they call it, is a 50 /50 JV. Knowing the Schreier organisation, I would be surprised if they haven't managed to get some local authority financial support for the link to the M18, but haven't seen any costings etc in Hargreaves Annual Reports.
muckshifter
26/11/2020
19:36
imo the 25 million to the JV for the Unitygate project should be completed/paid in this fin. year of HSP (to end of May '21) (what % of it will HSP get ??) (the access road close to junction 5 is surfaced, & putting a road across the whole 250 hectare site is happening now, perhaps 30% is tarmac'd & work is happening I think they plan to finish it in January -March 2021, so, not far away ....I assume that the short road to the 32 hectare warehouse site is also happening now using the same machines & workers) & also £9million +£1million of sales at Blindwells=£10million so, there should be some solid cash inflow in this fin. year of HSP & a solid % of profit I assume out of that £25million payment to the JV, ( or to at least pay for most/all current/future site devel. costs)
smithie6
26/11/2020
18:53
site near Hatfield, near Doncaster in England .. RNS "32 hectare (79 acre) plot to a national retailer for the development of a 75,000 sq metre (800,000 sq ft) national distribution centre and training facility. The sale, which will realise approximately GBP25m of revenue for the joint venture on legal completion, is conditional upon..." ...access road &... 32 hectares from a total of 250 ! so 218 hectares left !! 32 hectares for £25 million £781k per hectare !!! it is valuable land. noting that X % will be for empty spaces, Z% for roads/streets etc etc.....which are not sellable m2 --- A) valuation method A. even at £350k per hectare (too low. Bellway paid 9 million for land for 147 houses I think. (but perhaps the best area on the site ??; & Bellway are offerring 3,4,5 bedroom houses; cheaper starter homes will bring down the total average) 61k/house plot £2 million per hectare, but this will be for building land & excludes m2 of roads etc.) the remaining 218 hectares @ only 350k/hectare (including roads & open spaces) (too low) would be worth 218 x 350k= £ 76.3 million. (I see it as being notably higher) + the 25 million deal = ~£100 million (too low) minus cost of access road to this warehouse (200-300 metres ?, not far, slap bang next to the slip road to junction 5) - site development costs - planning appl. costs - legal - project team - B) valuation method B assume 25 million for the rest of the commercial useage land. ~35 more hectares say £25 million again. ( but higher costs for roads since more smaller units, so more access roads) & say average 50k/serviced home plot (guestimated number based on Bellway deal at Blindswell project near Edinburgh) & licence is for 3000 homes at this project. Is £50k accurate ? = £50k x 3000 = £150 million total guestimated possible income = 25 +25 + 150 = £200 million costs= road to big warehouse + roads to smaller warehouses + roads to houses + HSP % of road ( + bridge) from junction 5 thru the site to local town + project team + legal costs + partner % + ...+....+...+ who pays for installing site/home services like sewage, gas, electricity, water = ? --- I think method/guestimate B is more accurate estimating the numerous costs, much more difficult to do I think, unless you have experience in the housing project/development sector ----- this site has - train station. at the edge of it ('Hayfield') - direct motorway access to the site !. junction - on M18 ! ----- the road going thru the site from the junction across to the local town is being part funded by public money. lovely :-) (noting that a road had to be built thru the site anyway to help people get closer to their houses !...) ----- Anyone know the typical deal with the partner ? HSP owns the land ...& I haven't seen any news that the partner has put in any cash at all, so I assume they get a % of sales or something...& perhaps a profit bonus.
smithie6
26/11/2020
18:34
I guess that the total money received & total costs won't be known for a few years for phase 1, 1600 houses & later for the 900 houses of phase 2 do you know how much has been done for the £17-20 million that HSP has spent (ref. accounts)...& whether it is all done now for phase 1 ?? does the 17-20 million include all the roads in phase 1 ? , power cabling ?, sewage pipes ? , fresh water pipes ?, gas pipes ? or is there notable money still to be spent for phase 1 ? the school to be built. the state pays for that or HSP ? ------ some assets will I assume produce a lower sale price per acre or m2 of land/property, lower price homes ..while some assets will I assume produce a higher sale price per acre or m2 such as shops, bar, cafĂ©, restaurant (clients from the final 2500 homes (6500-7500 people !!) & customers of the park & ride)
smithie6
26/11/2020
17:57
Smithie6, You ask “any experts on typical costs to provide services & roads for a residential site ? per hectare !! But Blindwells is not a normal or “typical”; residential building site. It is a site with considerable civil engineering work needed to prepare it, with considerable settlement risks to be overcome. If you read the sections of annual and half year reports related to Blindwells from say mid 2018, you will get a flavour of how difficult these plots are to prepare. I don’t think HSP have achieved even one of the many predictions of plot availability, sales completion, etc. during those two years. So, this is not easy or cheap plot preparation work, and I doubt if even HSP themselves could give you an accurate prediction of the profitability of the site yet. It should be reasonably profitable imo, but probably not the bonanza many here are expecting.
muckshifter
26/11/2020
15:59
ah ha so, it was tipped. ------ strong price movement up in the last 1/2 hour
smithie6
26/11/2020
15:34
Added here. Shares on offer are drying up, suspect that larger seller is clearing out allowing a bigger push higher. Someone picked up a very significant 201,431 just after close yesterday too. Normally this would move big on little buying, but the buying of late has been notable, and it hasn't shifted in the same proportion as historic moves. Now it could be set to go. Not a subscriber but seen the Simon Thompson with a strong buy update as per the noted stream of buys earlier: "An unwarranted 39 per cent discount to NAV of 403p (land is in the books at cost), the shares offer material upside to the 320p target price I outlined" All imo DYOR
sphere25
26/11/2020
12:34
Sphere25 yes, some big trades reported at the end of recent days, which look like sales (1 such trade reported today, for yesterday) (while on the other hand 2 directors bt shares recently, on 23rd Nov at ~220p, the non-exec chairman put in over £100k more, to add to his existing holding, a sizeable chunk of cash) a sequence of buy trades of 1500 shares each time, close together, at around midday today hmmmm looks imo like repeated trades from 1 person; which the MM wouldn't like, officially it's not allowed I think....supposed to place 1 bigger trade (& pay a bigger spread !)
smithie6
26/11/2020
12:21
any experts on typical costs to provide services & roads for a residential site ? per hectare !! it's a key factor in estimating possible HSP profits from developing/selling any land ---- 1600 homes in phase 1 & 900 in phase 2, if it happens = 2500 homes at £50k/homeplot that is £125 million but then you have to deduct a lot of costs At Blindwells ~16M spent on site infrastructure in last 2 years & ~2 million the year before ..close to 20M & a lot more infrastructure yet to go in I assume...including for phase 2, if it happens X years in the future & then there is marketing, project team, office lease costs, office heating, any advisers...& a % of the plc costs &... ==== note: it is only 1 of the HSP projects, using its big land bank ===== the location close to Edinburgh & the good road connection (A1), bordering the site !! & the train station is very positive.....producing lots of demand for housing...which can surely soak up 2500 new homes without problem, over time whereas if the site was in the middle of no-where & with bad road links & no train line it would be impossible I assume to sell 2500 serviced home plots at £50k/plot.
smithie6
26/11/2020
12:05
netcurtains one reason for possible moving of the station is the planned park & ride since at Blindwells area there is land available for parking....whereas in the existing town of Prestonpans I assume there are no/few m2 for more parking for park & ride. ---- for the site it would benefit a lot if the station was 0.3 miles & not 1.3-1.4 miles from a house on Blindwells (cycling, a lot of office workers wouldn't be so keen phps on cycling phps even if just for 1.3 miles (including female office workers in office clothes) ....icy cold in Jan./Feb...& a fair amount of wet days I guess
smithie6
26/11/2020
12:03
Judging by the buys coming in now, I'd say this has been tipped. Still looks like a big seller here, just doesn't shift big on all the buying.
sphere25
26/11/2020
12:01
meijiman: HSP has loads of NAV (land) and if it could unlock this NAV it would be worth a fortune. The site in Edinburgh might be the beginning of unlocking value. So as an investment its a good buy for NAV. Its net NAV is about £140M but its market cap is about £70M (fag packet figures) On top of the NAV it also trades at a profit and that also is worth a few million on top of the £140M
netcurtains
26/11/2020
11:46
Why all this interest in Hargreaves? Should we be buying the shares? Got to hope the company doesn't start buying a coal mine in Outer Mongolia.
meijiman
26/11/2020
11:34
Its 15 minutes by train to centre of edinburgh (from site) and 50 minutes by bus. Both cost couple of quid. Obviously train miles better as no traffic jams Best bet is bike to station - no need to move station.
netcurtains
26/11/2020
10:47
train station/halt for Blindwells newtown (it is a such a big site that it is often referred to as a newtown project) if useful to know, one option being considered is to move the existing nearby train station of Prestonpans 1-1.1 miles to the east, to be at the edge of Blindwells newtown ==== it is also being looked at to increase the number of train lines from 2 to 4 in to Edinburgh for that general area because of the existing demand, never mind the expected extra demand
smithie6
26/11/2020
10:17
Follow Hargreaves Land on LinkedIn, they sometimes post updates hxxps://www.linkedin.com/posts/hargreaves-land_residentialdevelopment-newtown-blindwells-activity-6731881491107717120-24Rq
terry236
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