GKN Investors - GKN

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Stock Name Stock Symbol Market Stock Type
GKN GKN London Ordinary Share
  Price Change Price Change % Stock Price Last Trade
0.00 0.0% 482.40 00:00:00
Open Price Low Price High Price Close Price Previous Close
482.40 482.40
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Top Investor Posts

grahamburn: Sorcery.... you are quite right to put a question mark after "£8billion of loans". The Melrose deal is primarily equity based as opposed debt based. But then the posts on this board used to be ones of reasonable quality, depth and sense. Now the newer posters have introduced a large dose of the opposite. However, the same to an even greater degree/quantity has occurred on the Melrose board too over the past couple of weeks. That is a genuine shame and very depressing to sane investors as both boards relate to important companies within the UK; one in a degree of management and financial turmoil and one trying the hard to raise its own game. Before anyone tries to contradict the last paragraph, let me emphasise that supporters of GKN are at perfect liberty to determine which description fits that company, as are supporters of Melrose. It is deliberately ambiguous to seek to keep everyone happy/quiet as there is little point in discussing high powered financial, business or economic matters any more on this or the Melrose board. Fallible human beings see what they wish to see and hold pre-conditioned views which do not allow for a sensible discussion. So, I will not visit either board until the saga has reached its conclusion.
meanwhile: Sorcery, Go to hxxps://www.melroseplc.net/ You will see 'Investors' along the top. Hover over it. Full 2017 is under 'Financial highlights' and 2016 is under 'Reports'.
sorcery: With respect to you, Headline Operating Profit should be what they pay taxes on (statutory). Anything else is bull. Bit amateurish of Melrose not to put their 2017 full year results on their website don't you think? Cant find your link easily to imvestors or a similar investors. Looking at the balance sheet for Melrose 2016 full year accounts hxxps://www.melroseplc.net/media/1041/melrose-ar16.pdf, I see that on page 141 of the financial side, they don't even bother to state net tangible assets. Company refs has net tanglible assets of -15.7p per share for 2015, +136p for share for 2016 and -3.85p per share for 2017. Maybe I am misinterpreting you but does any of this inspire confidence in the takeover? Looks like a minnow taking on an adult trout or as Minerve succinctly puts it, GKN is buying GKN. Wish I knew who put up the dosh for this, the Chinese?
meanwhile: Sorcery, No, not to dress up MRO but to show their poor performance here with Nortek. Data is from Melrose website >investors>reports>2016 annual report+ 2017 Interim report and >imvestors>financial highlights for full 2017 (get H2 by taking H1 from full year. They quote Headline Operating Profit as their chosen measure of performance.
sorcery: Well MEANWHILE i don't know where you are getting your 2017 figures from, I have £131.1 million pre tax profit for H1 2017 of £131.1m, (ony £47.8m statutory), see hxxps://www.melroseplc.net/media/1039/melrose-interim-results-31-august-2017-final.pdf 2017 H2 full year profits are not yet available, see hxxps://www.melroseplc.net/investors/reports/ so I guess you must have inside info and quite possibly a motive to dress Melrose up. GKN on the other hand for full year 2017, had sales of £10,409m turnover and pre tax profit of £568m. I have no confidence in Melrose's ability to take on GKN given their vastly different sizes.
grahamburn: The article linked earlier was actually quite pro-GKN had you bothered to read it. I have been pro-GKN for many years, but have been disappointed by its management, especially in the last 8 months or so, where they have shown a lack of grip and policy. As a long-term investor, I do consider the long-term issues which affect ALL stakeholders - because that is the only way to secure long-term benefits for all of them: whether shareholders, employees, customers and pensioners. If you ignore any of them, then the company will not meet its economic and social responsibilities. No one has queried why the GKN pension funds are in substantial deficit and have been for many years. That isn't down to Melrose - or perhaps you think it is. Your posts (both here and on the Melrose thread) seem to concentrate solely on vague social responsibility issues which, though important, are not the whole story. Confirmation bias is anyone's own worst enemy. So please try to be objective. Indeed, you clearly haven't read widely (as any investor should do) because the majority of the UK press (and US) has been pro-GKN and pro-Dana (in spite of GKN's recent poor performance and Dana's long history of "issues"). Just to confirm my objective approach to the entire saga and to show that I do not exhibit confirmation bias, there's a lead news item in The Times today which provides balance to this thread - and might encourage some GKN shareholders, even if it doesn't change my own view that GKN have mishandled the current situation. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/city-grandee-boosts-gkn-in-bid-battle-hqvz6db2f
grahamburn: Yet again, another sensible balanced appraisal in The Times Business Commentary today: _________________________________ The bid goes on That’ll keep the politicians and unions happy. Instead of seeing GKN sold to another British engineering company — the corporate raiders from Melrose — what about carving up the business and flogging half of it to America? A week on from the news that Dana had arrived on the scene, the automotive outfit from Maumee, Ohio, has got a deal that adds some thrust to GKN’s defence. Merging Dana with GKN’s Driveline unit will give the UK group’s shareholders 47.25 per cent of the combined group plus £1.2 billion cash. Adjust for taking on a chunk of GKN’s pension deficit and the deal values Driveline at £4.4 billion, including debts. In fact, a bit more now, given the 4 per cent rise in Dana shares. It sent GKN shares up 3 per cent to 434¼p, valuing it at £7.47 billion. Or almost £330 million more than Melrose’s offer. That presently values GKN at 415p after Melrose shares rose 4 per cent to 224¼p. Pressure on Melrose, then, to up its bid. Even so, despite the mooted $235 million synergies, the Dana/Driveline deal is hardly a knockout. As Melrose was quick to point out, the fig-leaf of being a UK plc doesn’t disguise the fact that the combo would be Dana-controlled, HQ’d in Ohio and not even listed in London. So would GKN investors want all that New York-listed paper, which Melrose reckons would be “taxed as dividend income”? And what about improving Driveline before it’s sold? Plenty of mileage in this bid yet.
grahamburn: Interesting commentary in The Times Business News yesterday. May I stress before any poster queries my motives that I am non-partisan in this prospective hostile bid - simply interested in genuine facts, evidence and discussion on the pros and cons of each successful or not UK company's position. Any transaction must be in the long term interests of all stakeholders - shareholders, employees, suppliers and customers. _________ Business commentary March 3 2018, 12:01am, The Times Defence is all kinds of everything Alistair Osborne Sing along now: “Snowdrops and daffodils, butterflies and bees.” The GKN defence has been a multi-faceted affair. But, at last, it’s making sense. It’s got a thing going with Dana. Yes, Dana, winner of the 1970 Eurovision Song Contest. And not with any old ditty but All Kinds of Everything: the soundtrack to GKN’s defence. Just think of all the ways it’s tried to see off Melrose’s £6.9 billion hostile bid. It’s played the pensions card, frightening GKN’s retirees — even though it knew Melrose had already offered to put another £150 million into their fund. Then there was the national security card, despite GKN not featuring among the Ministry of Defence’s leading suppliers (not in the top 100, according to Melrose). Plus, of course, the efforts of its new boss Anne Stevens. She’s painted the Melrose raiders as mere moneymen, unlike the woman behind Project Boost, the turnaround plan based on “real engineering, not financial engineering”. No matter, either, that Ms Stevens is planning to break up the group into its automotive and aerospace parts in 15 months — far faster than Melrose, which reckons you should improve things first. And now look. Up pops Dana, knitting it all together in her Irish lilt. So talk about disappointing. Turns out it’s a different Dana — the main reason, you imagine, GKN shares fell 3 per cent to 420p. This one comes from Maumee, Ohio, and fancies getting hitched to GKN’s Driveline wing via some “potential combination . . . effected mainly in equity”. Indeed, GKN reckons the possible tie-up “could provide greater value to shareholders” than a demerger. Talks with Dana Inc are at an early stage, flushed out by the Financial Times. Yet you can see why Jefferies analysts believe “the relative scale of the two businesses” makes a deal “very demanding”. Dana, valued at only $3.8 billion, looks no bigger than a standalone Driveline: it had $7.2 billion sales last year, less than Driveline’s £5.3 billion, even if, unsurprisingly, Dana has better margins. And why would GKN investors want a ton of Dana shares? They haven’t always looked the greatest bet, what with Dana collapsing into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in 2006. And the shares have had quite a run of late, nicely timed for a share-based pop at the GKN business. What, too, would Britain’s politicians think? They don’t even like the idea of another British engineering company buying GKN. So what would they make of GKN’s American boss selling one of its two main businesses to some US outfit? Still, at least Dana has livened things up, which is more than you could ever say for the other Dana’s song. GKN has demonstrated that there are companies out there happy to help it to break itself up, potentially upping the pressure on Melrose to raise its offer. After its shares fell 3 per cent yesterday to 215½p, its bid is now 18p shy of GKN’s share price. A bit short, then, of all kinds of everything.
cisk: Minerve, It’s very easy to make broad-brush assumptions about investors - call them selfish or short term or whatever you like. You might be right or wrong. Personally I don’t care. I am not a trader. I am an investor. I have owned shares in GKN for nearly 10 years. In that time they’ve gone up and down. I bought them because I believe in the business and support UK engineering. Could they have been managed better? Of course. I’ve also owned shares in Melrose for a similar period. If you look at their track record I would not call it BS. You should understand that they are in business to make money. If GKN don’t, they will go bust and people will loose their jobs. I agree they are not struggling at the moment, but they need to do better otherwise some foreign company will buy them and will certainly make a whole lot of people redundant. And better it be Melrose and keep it British and actually invest in the business - which Melrose do by the way. This is not 70s Britain where once great engineering companies like rolls nearly go bust and have to be bailed out by the government. And then to continue making strategic errors 40 years later like selling off their competency in the narrow body market, the area that’s growing the strongest! This is a time of growth in the aerospace business, margins should be high and GKN should be making hay while this sun is shining. The fact that they are not speaks volumes. And if it takes Melrose to improve things and invest in the business, then so be it.
minerve: Cisk & others "struggling" is a relative term. Personally, I don't see GKN as a company that is "struggling". What is at issue here is one of valuation. As an investor, I am not a short-termist, so I am not hell-bent on accelerating valuations as quick as possible to sell out and then have to go through the exercise of finding YET ANOTHER investment to make. I am more than happy to receive a well covered dividend and allow companies to grow organically rather than through debt fueled and short-termist M&A activity which eventually - most of the time - ends in tears for certain stakeholders initially and then shareholders eventually. Also, as an investor, I accept and appreciate that there are indeed other stakeholders in the business including employees. I appreciate that their working conditions and rights should be protected and I am not selfish to not accept the presence of Unite. Shame on MEANWHILE for slagging off unite! I am sure if he was an employee he would have a different view as to their presence! Being an investor, believe it or not, IS NOT JUST ABOUT YOU! Those who understand GKN are already at GKN! No question about it! I say that from being a qualified engineer who was also a director at an engineering company listed on the market. There are many advantages in keeping GKN as GKN. Many of these values are intangible. Idiots who just see companies as a PE multiple will never learn. I don't buy this BS about Melrose, they may not be on the sharp-end of PE, I accept that, but they are 'sharp boys' nevertheless - they run a valuation, rather than a company. Here is to hoping the bid fails.
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