Flowgroup Plc Share Discussion Threads

[trader2] 22/1/2018 16:31

Big vol day 2day. Wasshappening?

[lunanlodge] 22/1/2018 11:01

Waiting for next update to see if there is any hope.

[trader2] 09/1/2018 13:53

Market Cap now about £26/customer - based om £6.5m Market Cap and 250K customers. More realistically, with debt of around £45m you would need to pay £180 a customer - which doesn't seem expensive given that a customer generates over a £1000pa in revenue. So... why are these guys not subject to a bid?

[highasakite] 22/12/2017 21:26

This will be one of the first companies to go bust in 2018

[zulu_principle] 22/12/2017 19:06

You're right - loan note holders have some preferential protection. The sequence (I think) is secured creditors (e.g. loans secured on company property or other fixed assets), fixed and floating charge creditors (as specified in loan agreements), preferential creditors (e.g. staff), unsecured / trade creditors and finally shareholders.

I suppose it all hinges on the exact terms of the loan agreement.

I'm off now for a few days, have a good Christmas.. Good luck to holders - for the rest of us lets hope we (or more specifically "I") make better decisions in 2018.

[entropy22] 22/12/2017 15:20

Think loan note holders have certain advantages when things go wrong, as in first in the queue but they convert at whatever was agreed ( could be a discount but not normally current market price as I understand this. If the share price rises they take the shares if not they take repayments.

[supernumerary] 22/12/2017 12:35

Prompted by this news to look in here. So the Stiffler's finally gone - phew - not before time either. Can't help thinking a quick sale to Shell might be the best outcome for shareholders...



Anyway, Merry Christmas to all holders - let's hope next year proves better than this one!

[zulu_principle] 22/12/2017 08:07

Unless specifically stated in the agreement conversion would take place at the current market price. Existing shareholders (possibly including themselves - unless they were just providers of loan capital) would be very heavily diluted and would be easily outvoted by whatever the new share owners decided to put to an EGM.

No point demanding interest payments / penalties from a company that's already bust - you just add to the outstanding creditors list and get 5p in the £ (or whatever). More likely to have taken a charge over specific assets in return for agreeing to make the loan. If playing a longer game a loan provider would simply want to take control of the business via a massive share dilution and merge the company with other assets already under their control.

That's my understanding - happy to debate if anyone disagrees.

[entropy22] 21/12/2017 23:00

The institutional investors here can essentially wait until the company runs out of working capital before deciding whether to convert their loans at virtually zero per share and wipe out the remaining shareholders......Thought they could only convert at the original offer price or demand interest payments . And by wiping out shareholders they'd be wiping themselves out as they bought shares too.

[rolo7] 21/12/2017 21:56

Dont flow have some kind of deal with shell? They brought first utility today and could buy this for peanuts

[sooty snipes] 21/12/2017 15:50

This company stinks. Band together and inform the LSE the past two or three years have been nothing short of stealing investors money in my opinion

[zulu_principle] 21/12/2017 09:03

The shares are essentially being soaked up by the market makers and aren’t necessarily being acquired by the institutions. Market makers have an obligation to buy shares in the companies they deal in at their stated prices. If they have too many / too few shares in a given company they accordingly walk the price down or up in an attempt to bring their holdings back into an acceptable state of balance.

“A market maker is a broker that assumes the risk of holding a certain number of shares of a particular security in order to facilitate the trading of that security in order to keep the financial markets liquid. If investors are looking to sell a security market makers continue to purchase that security until all sellers are satisfied. Conversely, if investors are buying a security, market makers continue to sell that security until all orders are filled. Market makers, therefore, satisfy the supply and demand of the financial markets and keep securities changing hands. All market makers are compensated for the risk of holding assets by stating a buy / sell spread on each security that they cover.”

Worth bearing in mind the circa 5 million net sales / uncertains from yesterday would only have cost the FLOW market makers £25k between them – small change.

The institutional investors here can essentially wait until the company runs out of working capital before deciding whether to convert their loans at virtually zero per share and wipe out the remaining shareholders.

[trader2] 21/12/2017 08:40

Reasons to sell as above. Reasons to buy: 250K customers, institutions have stuck with them, simplified new business model, new BOD that have credible backgrounds.

[lunanlodge] 21/12/2017 00:54

8.3mil shares traded today. For every sell there is a buy. Can anyone tell me who would be the buyer and why? I think the institutional investors are clawing back their money but I fail to understand how.

[zulu_principle] 19/12/2017 15:24

Stop-lossed out for the second time (when will I ever learn)!!!

Still a trickle of new customers on TrustPilot but lousy reviews concerning large monthly payment price hikes, ignored or incorrectly estimated meter readings, late demands for money, etc, etc:

hxxps://uk.trustpilot.com/review/flowenergy.uk.com

Still no director / chairman buys - smells very bad for shareholders but could be good for loan-providers. Back into WEY to try and recover some credibility.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

[trader2] 11/12/2017 16:02

They are all well over notifiable levels. There would have been RNS's had there been sales.

[trader2] 11/12/2017 09:13

See a note on their site dated 30/11/17 that 41.78% of their outstanding holding is with institutions that have stuck by them through the turbulence. Gotta be a plus point.

[sooty snipes] 30/11/2017 15:29

If there is a silver lining it's that tw*t losing a load of dosh on the last fundraise. Doesn't make up for the milking of the company over the last few years though. The c*nt should be investigated and put in prison in my opinion

[rumobejo] 30/11/2017 11:38

Stiff dumping