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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Finsbury Food Group Plc LSE:FIF London Ordinary Share GB0009186429 ORD 1P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.00 0.0% 70.00 69.00 71.00 70.00 70.00 70.00 25,766 08:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Food Producers 313.3 17.0 9.8 7.1 91

Finsbury Food Share Discussion Threads

Showing 3651 to 3675 of 4750 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
04/3/2013
09:22
We are obviously going to hear more on 25th. Last year's eps was 8.1p. What difference to this figure would all this year's corporate action make on an annual basis?
this_is_me
03/3/2013
22:32
I doubt the bank will pull up the drawbridge. Credit conditions are easing at banks now.
aleman
03/3/2013
20:38
You are right that the interest bill will go down a lot. However, I hope they have some better uses for a few £m of it than giving it to HSBC! Sure, deleverage the balance sheet but, as we know from the case for the placing, there are opportunities for productivity improvements in the business and it would be nice to see more of those taken up. Once the debt is paid back, there is a risk that the bank might pull up its drawbridge (for a while). Its a small risk, and I don't doubt the Board have considered it fully in their planning. If the right acquisition comes along, I am sure that could be funded easily enough: debt, placement, pay with shares, deferred consideration etc. etc. Looking at it another way, does anyone consider that FIF is a more attractive acquisition target once the Genius monies are banked? After all, the company has proved that it can carry more debt than it will have... Hopefully the work done to woo new investors and get the business to this point is enough - at the very least - to mean that any would be acquirer will need to pay a very full price.
jpjp100
03/3/2013
12:10
JP have you not factored into your equations that the reduction in debt will boost PBT by easily £1m. With net debt now circa £10m (33m - 21m, - cashflow and monies from the placing not yet invested) this business is substantially de-risked. The debt is now so small as to no longer be an issue. The company is now in a really strong position compared to its peers. They'll now be able to cherry pick acquisition opportunities as they emerge. Exciting times ahead
boffster
03/3/2013
11:01
I don't think it is ironic, it just goes to show how difficult 'Goodwill' is to value. Personally I would be most pleased if the structure of the sale to Genius is £1 tangibles and the whole of the rest Goodwill I don't doubt for one moment that the valuation of the Goodwill on the FIF balance sheet is as accurate as it can be, but I would happier to see the percentage of total assets represented by Goodwill lower Whilst the news is good, Goodwill is probably good to have around, if newsflow gets less positive, then I suspect it could quickly become a significant millstone around a company's neck. The principle valuation is, of course, all around current and expected future cashflow. Please don't read any negative outlook on my part into my musings on Goodwill valuation. I am considering to add to my holding of FIF before the interims.
jpjp100
03/3/2013
07:26
Its all about cash flow at end of day unless they fully sell up
s34icknote
02/3/2013
22:38
That seems rather ironic when (as I understand it) we have just sold net assets of £6m and goodwill of £6m for £21m, don't you think? The premium over assets paid was 2.5 times the goodwill paid a few years ago. This sale of a small part of the business for £15m above net assets turns the balance sheet positive at a stroke and suggests that your negative net assets figure may be even more misleading than the positive figure in the accounts that you doubted. Of course, they might pay above net assets for an acquisition in a few months and return us to where we were!
aleman
02/3/2013
21:14
Another fair point, but it is hard to ignore when, without it, the company's net balance sheet would flip from net +ve assets to net -ve (in this case at the last annual report -£13.288m) The very fact that it is largely a meaningless number is why having such a lot of it (as a proportion of total assets) on the balance sheet is a valid cause for concern imo.
jpjp100
02/3/2013
21:07
I ignore goodwill. It's a meaningless number. The value of a business is it's ability to generate cash in future and the likelihood that it will. An investor should put his own valuation on that, not the value when directors over- or underpaid for acquisitions/licenses/development costs years ago or the adjusted valuation the directors guess at/manipulate that figure to now.
aleman
02/3/2013
20:55
Fair points on the cashflow timing Aleman It does depend on investments / acquisitions as to how much of the £20.7m coming in actually ends up going to debt reduction. Maybe there will be some indications of that nature in the interims... What are your thoughts on the Goodwill, that has always been jostling for top spot on my list of 'concerns' with the net debt position.
jpjp100
02/3/2013
20:13
Now, when the interims are announced, we have all been expecting some further debt reduction anyway... I haven't. Most cashflow feeds through in H2. With the interaction with the November placing money for capex projects,i.e depending on how quickly they spend it, debt could be up or down a bit at the interims. I wouldn't like to bet which. How much is then free to pay down debt from much stronger H2 cashflows would normally depend slightly on the weather but that will be magnified 3 or 4 times by the Free From sale. Debt at end of December £29m to £35m, depending on timing of capex, but probably £30-33m. Debt at the end of June £5m to £15m, depending on capex timing (being mostly fitted but still not paid for yet?) ,efficiencies gained, weather and dividend, but probably £9-12m? Debt 2014 probably £2m-£7m but acquisition(s) likely to supersede this.
aleman
02/3/2013
19:16
A few numbers crunched - could be wrongly calculated, have a check. Based on last full year accounts so definitely wrong, but close enough on that front. Group revenue is down by £28.5m - so, £175m PBT is down £1.4m - so £5.1m Assets down £6.1m - so £122.388m (I hope it is £1 tangible assets and £6,099,999 goodwill) Net debt down by £17.7m with £3m to come in 2 years - so £16.2m going to £13.2m (though I am sure all the cash won't be used for debt reduction, there are surely some worthwhile investments that are just sat waiting for funding). Now, when the interims are announced, we have all been expecting some further debt reduction anyway and had our fingers crossed for a little bit of growth in revenue and profitability, so there is a chance that these numbers will look a touch better then...
jpjp100
02/3/2013
18:29
What price do the shares need to get to for you to have a good word to say markt?
jpjp100
02/3/2013
18:27
Surprised at the sale. Surprised in that I never imagined Genius would tip up all that for it once the option had lapsed back in Dec 2011. Balance sheet repair well under way But still a long way to go: I have said before that I am not 100% comfortable with the level of goodwill on the balance sheet and it bears repeating as it represented 48% of the total assets on the balance sheet at the last annual report.
jpjp100
01/3/2013
17:44
Nah woody, was gin, I find the clearer the liquor the less severe the after effects. And its in the garage, I don't leave it out in the elements :o)
boffster
01/3/2013
08:54
heavy head this morning boff? Check your aston martin is still parked outside.
woodcutter
01/3/2013
07:46
Interim results 3 weeks on Monday.
aleman
01/3/2013
07:18
Sold out yesterday after more than two years here, very happy with my profit but fear i was too quick to get out, will be watching closely for a slight retrace although not sure if i can see one! Have to say a big big thankyou to my good friend boffster for all the tips and guidance i can finally buy his aston martin off him!:)
bigfrocks
01/3/2013
00:20
Is that Doom Bar you've been drinking?
joeywald
28/2/2013
23:21
We're all doooomed! Doomed I tells ya! I may be drunk
boffster
28/2/2013
17:14
I think aleman has a fair point and as always puts the figures on the board for which i'm grateful. These types of business have very little organic growth and the part of the business that was delivering that in terms of sales has just been sold. What attracted me to this business was the cashflow and the ability to reduce the debt and enhance earnings as a result of deleveraging i wasn't expecting substantial growth. We seem to have done that now so the rerating of the share price is all that's keeping me in these now. When (not if) the rerating comes and i feel between 90p and 120p is a good a range as i can estimate, then i'm probably a seller, as they'll have achieved what i felt was most likely. I see it happening in stages fwiw. Free From sale Less interest on debt, earnings go up. Divi restored Yield players get on board possible acquisitions (this could happen anytime) SP rises to sensible value..................i'm most likely out. My guess is 18 months time frame at which point i may have significantly improved my investment. Woody
woodcutter
28/2/2013
15:00
There is probably enough for the management to do sorting out the sale process to keep them occupied for the next few months.
this_is_me
28/2/2013
14:53
In these times, debt-free is king and such companies with reasonable growth prospects are more likely to find their sps at a sensible PER. Hence, I'm very serious and am not averse to wise, modest acquisition, but would prefer to see organic growth from within....for the foreseeable future.
spaceparallax
28/2/2013
13:39
spaceparallax - you must be joking. There should be about £9m of net debt at the end of June against prospective EBITDA of £14m. Food companies tend to carry more like 2 x EBITDA so there's about £20m headroom for acquisitions. (We were over 4 a few years back and the company pulled through fine even if the shares panicked. This fear of debt at very cash generative companies is irrational.) There is little growth in cakes. The company has to to grow by acquisition or pay out the free cashflow of around 10p per share and let us reinvest it. Somehow I don't see the latter happening. It's the nature of the industry and the company you are invested in that they grow by acquisition.
aleman
28/2/2013
13:05
I'm back in for the first time since the low 30p's. Looks a great deal to me. Surely the share price will double from here :)
joeywald
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