Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Epe Special LSE:ESO London Ordinary Share IM00B4JV7H77 ORD 5P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  +0.00p +0.00% 151.50p 143.00p 160.00p 151.50p 151.50p 151.50p 14,000 08:00:00
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Equity Investment Instruments 12.6 -3.0 -10.4 - 44.71

Epe Special Share Discussion Threads

Showing 101 to 122 of 125 messages
Chat Pages: 5  4  3  2  1
dont forget that they have >8M of unsecured loan notes, plus the 3+M of bank debt the underlying partnerships hold. Buy back also not poss because closed period. And if share price drops further they get better value. Suspect new man at LUCE is kitchen sinking so p/w may not come in threes unless market remains weak or weakens. Discount not big enough on ESO once net cash is taken into account, but it might get there Nibbled at LUCE in hope that makes the share price drop (application of sod's law hopefully in my favour!)
Jeez what an RNS. "About that buy-back..." "LUCE, it's great really" "Our NAV's still quite high - if you value LUCE at 77p" Not sure why I'd buy ESO over LUCE if I believed that RNS. If I didn't believe it I wouldn't buy either.
A stonking gamble Mammy
Way over-valued. When LUCE goes down the toilet all they will have is 80p a share cash and some assorted sh1t. Stonking sell
I reckon these might be worth a punt now. The market cap is about £48m at this price. At the last set of results they had over £30m in cash plus the LUCE stake must still be worth a bit over £30m and then there are the other investments of unknown worth. I think LUCE is close to the bottom and now looks pretty good value to me so this could be a decent, discounted and safer way to take a punt on a recovery in LUCE's fortunes.
LUCE down to 87p, wonder what ESO's NAV is down to now.
I agree re LUCE (other than "profit warnings come in 3's") but I don't like the illiquidity, the reliance on LUCE/cash (some of which is now being spent on buyback) or my knowledge of what P2U is like (have no idea about Whittards/other holdings). Just feels like the previous huge discount was wholly justified.
Discount is still very large. Fall is a huge over reaction. Whittards has been a bit of a dog for years but they seem pretty excited about it recently. You seem to be writing off LUCE. It has a very good track record. If this accounting issue proves to be a one off the re-rating will be pretty sharp. Also ESO valuation multiples are listed in its valuation methodology and seem pretty conservative. Just as they were when they have been writing up LUCE over the years
horndean eagle
I considered these after the recent fall but don't think there is much point. The discount is not now very large and LUCE looks fairly valued to me. I checked out the accounts of Whittards and they don't look to be worth much so unless these drop to £1.50 I don't think i'll bother. They probably won't do now they are buying back shares. You appeat to be reliant on the investing expertise of Giles Brand and i'm not sure he is all that good tbh. Arthur
Share buy-back should help it. Needs LUCE to turn the corner tho.
Fair point - with LUCE lower, the cash makes up a much larger % of the NAV. Any guesses on current NAV? They should be telling us soon but it'll already be out of date of course. The cash went into P2U in conjunction with the merger with Chem Direct (another big loss-maker) - is possible the scale will save them but £10m is a lot when margins (NHS prescriptions) are so low, and marketing spend so high. We'll see - would be very interesting if they tried to float it, along the "technical disrupters" line (putting local pharmacies out of business). Would need a few years of actually making money before they'd dare try that, and then a lot of bad history to get past.
I wouldn't massively focus too much on financials re p2u. Once these private equity guys are involved the accounting usually turns a bit dodgy. Not always easy to work out whats going on. That 3rd party funding round was external so it wasn't ESO putting in the cash. That 3rd party funding was put in mid way through last reportable accounts so those investing must have been reasonably aware of what was going on balance sheet wise. Will probably see a pretty different set of results next time around. Id argue there is some pretty strategic value within p2u even in its current form. It has a lot of data and conducts issues prescriptions online. Any large player looking to get into the space would pay for its customer base. Not sure you could ask for the same discount post LUCE fall. Cash is a huge slug of nav.
horndean eagle
Thanks @HE. LUCE p/w rather spoiled the "massive discount" argument for ESO - wonder what NAV is with LUCE at 112p? I've not tried to work it out, but guessing that to restore the previous discount, ESO need to be way lower than here. Re P2U - they had a great business initially, made a lot of money, but now loss-making. They may get there with sufficient scale but to say I wouldn't touch it with a sh*tty stick is an understatement. Having Andy Hornby involved only adds to that feeling. NHS work used to be a gold mine, now it's more like a salt mine. The negative press of their business practices (previously censured for selling patient data etc) can't help. Not sure why someone like ESO saw it as a good place for their money. Fair to say I know more about P2U than I do about ESO. What worries me is that I know more about P2U than ESO do :) Agree re LUCE - time will tell whether it's "profit warnings come in 3's" or a short-term blip.
Valid points your raise. However in defence:- External party injected cash into p4u at the valuation that ESO hold their stake. It was a sizeable injection so I would be fairly happy its not a mickey mouse number they are using. It is fast growing and in a particularly exciting growth area. Their track record on valuations has generally been pretty conservative. LUCE was held at a very conservative valuation throughout its rapid growth phase. Their long term track record is pretty impressive. They have a lot of skin in the game. Hopefully LUCE issues are a one off. Looks very cheap if that is indeed the case.
horndean eagle
Luceco profit-warned the day before the MoneyWeek article on ESO. Also a mention of the stake in Pharmacy2U, whose accounts are well worth a look - they seem to only keep going IMO by endless cash injections, £10m last one I saw, & merging with others. I'm usually a big fan of heavy discounts, particularly on p/e ITs. Have never, even once, been tempted by ESO - they seem to be mugs, something I concluded when looking into who on earth was pumping more money into Pharmacy2U (who have had a lot of negative comment over their habit of mailshotting the elderly with letters using the NHS logo - nothing illegal, but plenty of comment online about it). Still - everything has its price I guess, & I know little about the other holdings other than knowing that the NAV discount has come in considerably thanks to LUCE! From 15th Dec (LUCE closed at 112p yesterday): "EPE Special Opportunities plc Net Asset Value The Directors of EPE Special Opportunities plc ("ESO plc", or the "Company") note the fall in the Luceco plc share price following a trading announcement this morning. As previously disclosed (including in the full year ESO plc Report and Accounts released 3 April 2017), any change in the Luceco plc share price will impact the ESO plc Net Asset Value. Should the Luceco plc share price close today at 145.0 pence per ordinary share, the estimated ESO plc fully diluted Net Asset Value will be 315.57 pence per ordinary share. The end of December 2017 ESO plc fully diluted Net Asset Value will be confirmed in due course. " Not sure where that leaves the ESO NAV now, but with certain things in it I'd discount completely, and LUCE having gone lower, I can't see ESO as a bargain.
Tipped again in Moneyweek today! "EPE trades on a sizeable discount to its net asset value, the bulk of which is comprised of a 24% stake in Luceco, a leading UK LED lighting business that is growing strongly". etc etc
Tipped in Moneyweek.
asset value increased again discount is large
The performance fee is a bit hard to swallow. Anything over 8% investment adv gets 20%
discount is rather large for a fund that appears to be doing well
About time the share price responded to nav growth. I can't fathom why the IM has been so tight with the cash. Could have brought a lot more stock back sub 270p. Struggle to see how they are going to deploy all that cash any time soon.
horndean eagle
Hectorp - 11 Nov'11 - 10:18 - 12223 of 12243 Down... ( edited - reason is probably being Ex Divi) So that 'plus' is now out of the share till next year. Have reduced /sold traders at POG at a loss of 4p today with a view to going overweight in Kurdish oil, ( note today's 13% rise in GKP and 10% in PCI, both of which I hold). I've resolved to steer clear of POG until close to the January update. There seems no point trading what is generally just following the Dow. IF POG resumes the upside trendline earlier than Jan-March, then I'd return. MML remains my main gold interest ( I bought from 16p ) but I have five others, eg HMB KYS Shanta etc, and two silver. Notice that Silver Wheaton has tripled its dividend, making it hugely attractive for Funds. However MML won't do much either for the next few months, and I took profits there a couple of days ago with a vew to trade back in, again in 2-3 months. H.
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