Devro Share Discussion Threads

[phillis] 29/8/2008 08:56

Yes sorry -early in the morning(for me any way)

[felix99] 29/8/2008 08:51

Cashflow is not same as profit and loss. Cashflow shows what they paid into the scheme which goes straight to reduce balance sheet liability.

If you look at 2007 annual report

Page 60 of pdf - the amounts charged to the profit and loss are :.......£1.4m odd.

Then go to note 33 page 70 ish. The cashflow movement paid into scheme was £4m odd. Two separate thnigs.

As i said the £1,4m is meant to reflect the cost of effectively borrowing the defecit from the pension scheme each year

[phillis] 29/8/2008 08:32

Felix

Thinking about the treatment

EDIT
I think you second para is wrong.
Yes the movement on the liability has been charged directly to reserves (and more than offset by the impact of currency changes on the balance sheet)

The increase in annual payments into the fund has been charged within the P & L as shown in the cash flow NOTE 11

[felix99] 29/8/2008 07:53

PEnsion liability movements go through reserves not the profit and loss account you see each year. Also the £4m odd contribs per annum into scheme go straight to balance sheet and do not hit p and l

The only thing that hits the profit and loss is the notional cost of borrowing of the pension liabilitiy. So if you got a £30m liability the only thing that hits your profits each year is the recognition that the company is borrowing £30m off the pension scheme . i.e interest on the £30m. or whatever the laibility actually is.

Also remember if the company wants to pass the liability to an insurance comapny and get rid of it then as a rule of thumb you need to multiply the IAS 19 balance sheet liability by about 2.5 times. .e if accounts say £20m then insurance buyout is more likely £50m.
So its a big headache and a posion pill for anybody wanting to take over company

There will be a big increase in contribs needed when then next 3 year actuarial review is due to be looked at . This will affect cashflow not profits though as above.

[treble in 1999] 28/8/2008 21:32

Pension provision is not yet cash paid. awaiting to see if markets recover before having to actually put the cash in.
What I am struggling to see clearly is "has this been taken from the profits for the period". For a provision to be in the accounts as a liability, it must show somewhere as being provided. By definition this is from the profits, so am i saying that they are actually £13m higher. 2nd half of 2007 saw this provision increase nearly £8m, so we have put aside £21m in a full year. If the markets recover, does this mean we get that added to profits, or will no further provision be made and higher profits declared.

What we need to know is that the end of it?

[engineer66] 28/8/2008 18:17

Trading side looks good. Pension thing really dessimated their total recognised income for period. eps not looking great, so share price not surprisingly a
bit subdued. Any views on this pension provision?

[phillis] 28/8/2008 17:35

See the retiring Chairman is putting hid hand in his pocket again

[phillis] 28/8/2008 13:22

Price increase will take care of cost pressures. Currency now moving in DVO favour.
Outperform

[engineer66] 27/8/2008 15:28

I'm in. Export sales should be buoyant. Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

[cockneyrebel] 26/8/2008 16:25

Frauddy, I'm glad I bought in over the past week - timing :-)

I reckon my average is 10% below yours.

Direcetor buying, new directyors and the china sausage angle look interesting.

CR

[phillis] 26/8/2008 13:34

Looking forward to the webcast which I think is a first.
On the basis that nobody likes to show themselves as a nob,I anticipate pleasant news!

[zeppo] 25/8/2008 16:41

Hoping for a tasty divi rise with the results this week.

z

[treble in 1999] 22/8/2008 14:49

What i like from the finals, is the current year has started in line with expectations, which as H2 2007 was better than H1, they should be ahead.
director's buying also at prices above today, when they were not in a close period.

I'm in. results next week

[engineer66] 13/8/2008 22:11

I'm starting to take an interest in this stock. Some interesting points made.
My main concern is about competition. I used to think Devro had a patent on Collagen. What I read from their Annual Report is there is a Collagen Casting Trade Association and Devro expect to keep pace with volume market growth (at 4.5%). I didn't find the tone that encouraging. Devro seem to be struggling an bit in retaining technical leadership and with emphasis on cost efficiencies they may be seeing tough cost-based competition from overseas. So if they dont have a strong product position a p/e of 11 is not that cheap in the food sector.

[phillis] 12/8/2008 18:45

Just like Rip van Winkel - this one will eventually wake up,

[scrapman] 11/8/2008 15:39

bit of life in the old porker today !!

[ydderf] 20/7/2008 15:40

what does the chart say now crookney?

i wouldn't trust a chart which told you to scalp Marks and be 100 per cent in cash - maybe you had the charts UPSIDE DOWN!

[ydderf] 17/7/2008 18:14

1.Simple conservatively managed business in food products = low beta share price
2.Dominates its markets
3.International sales - no worries about uk consumer
4.Recently discovered new international markets - eps will grow again, see what happened last time it was a growth stock, will be re-rated
5. Directors have bought shares consistently
6. Positive updates results due in a few weeks
7. 7 per cent yield, p/e of 10/11, so low rating

'4' is the most important imho

[cockneyrebel] 16/7/2008 10:42

Cummon then Frauddy - tell me the attraction. Property assets look decent but I know companies trading under book.

The PE isn't exactly cheap when you look around.

Make the case - I'm always prepared to change my mind but the chart says I'll be buying at 50p here imo.

CR

[cockneyrebel] 15/7/2008 12:56

Getting your sausage skinned here aren't you Frauddy?

I did warn you. Stinking recession coming, best hope is people are that skint that they buy DVO skins as condoms for cheap entertainment.

CR

[ydderf] 07/7/2008 18:15

DVO is no APG, TPT, API, etc etc Croocknetty

[cockneyrebel] 03/7/2008 19:35

Looks like Frauddy's gonna get his sausage skinned in this one.

CR

[barn owl] 03/7/2008 11:06

Keeping my powder dry for now. May even be sub 50p at some point.
Good luck.

[cockneyrebel] 03/7/2008 10:57

Chart's broken down, reckon I'll get to buy these at 50p.

Curse of the Frauddy imo :-)

CR