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DEMG Deltex Medical Group Plc

0.1075
0.005 (4.88%)
28 Mar 2024 - Closed
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Deltex Medical Group Plc LSE:DEMG London Ordinary Share GB0059337583 ORD 0.01P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  0.005 4.88% 0.1075 0.10 0.115 0.1075 0.1025 0.10 14,896,070 13:12:53
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Electromedical Apparatus 2.48M -1.15M -0.0006 -1.83 2.03M
Deltex Medical Group Plc is listed in the Electromedical Apparatus sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker DEMG. The last closing price for Deltex Medical was 0.10p. Over the last year, Deltex Medical shares have traded in a share price range of 0.1025p to 1.55p.

Deltex Medical currently has 1,846,653,348 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Deltex Medical is £2.03 million. Deltex Medical has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of -1.83.

Deltex Medical Share Discussion Threads

Showing 21401 to 21424 of 22600 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
01/5/2020
19:57
Well you obviously favour LID's technology. Please tell us why it is better? As schloo so eloquently put LID are not a takeover target because they are an also ran in terms of technology.
nobbygnome
01/5/2020
19:49
Nobby, no intention to offend - where have I gone so wrong?
vega44
01/5/2020
17:06
Vega

On the remote chance that you really want your question answered

DEMG built a robust evidence base of improved outcome and reduced costs after surgery. NICE reviewed the evidence and agreed, giving CardioQ-ODM a whole-hearted & wide ranging recommendation. This led to the NHS deciding to roll out ODM fully at pace and scale across the NHS: this is still the only time that the NHS has decided to roll out a medtech product nationally on the basis of evidence

LID has tried to build an evidence base in surgery but has consistently failed. This does not mean its tech doesn't work in surgery, just that it is nothing like as effective as DEMG's

So far so good: DEMG was flying in surgery, LID struggling

The NHS, after intense lobbying from LID, Edwards & others with inferior technologies, moved from implementing CardioQ-ODM, which had been reviewed by NICE, to ODM in general and then to ODM or similar technologies and then to any technology making marketing claims. Other than CardioQ-ODM they did not, and, disgracefully, still have not actually looked at the evidence nor allowed NICE to do so

This gave LID a huge leg up. The LID product, or at least the LidcoRapid, is much easier to use than ODM so anybody who believed they were the same would be justified in choosing the easy one rather than the one requiring more effort, skill and interpretation. Much easier for LID or Edwards sales reps to sell their kit as being as good as ODM when the NHS was telling them, wrongly, that it was the same thing

Then the NHS pulled its national roll-out programme anyway for idiotic bureaucratic reasons, causing a backlash against DEMG from doctors who had not liked being told to change their practice and blamed DEMG for a cynical exploitation of its (objective) evidence base. Nobody else was blamed because they hadn't exploited evidence they didn't have

There are other layers to the shambles but, basically, LID got lucky while DEMG got shafted

HOWEVER that is in the past. DEMG now sells the same entry level tech as LID but also offers a good non-invasive impedance tech as well as ODM off the same platform. Once they have a shiny new box (soon) DEMG should start to regain share quite rapidly

More importantly, it can only be a matter of time before someone, somewhere looks objectively at the LID evidence during surgery. They have done at least 10 studies and have not got one single positive result. DEMG have done over 20 and have over 20 positive results

Long term it really does matter that ODM is superior - avoidable complications after surgery kill in CoVid type numbers every year so this will one day get the attention it merits and LID's bluff will be well & truly called and whoever owns DEMG will make monstrous returns

That said, I think LID has a good monitoring technology, some well designed products and is well run these days by a good team. I own some shares, have doubled my money recently and think there is still plenty of upside. DEMG could and should learn from them. However, I don't think they are a great takeover candidate because their technology is not that well differentiated so they are selling revenues and profits more than DEMG who are selling unique and proven tech for which there is a clear and massive global need. I.e. any of Edwards, Baxter, Medtronic, J&J and so on could do far far more with DEMG than LID. I own a lot more of DEMG than I do of LID

Hope that helps

Schloo

schloo
01/5/2020
16:38
Nobby if you're such an authority on the subject of HM how come you've invested in the less successful company thus far?

An investor commanding respect would have the emotional capacity to switch or invest in two competing companies. You are too stubborn / stupid.

t0pgrader
01/5/2020
15:25
Such peripheral markets are not disclosed, but whether you look at UK, US or Rest of world, Lidco has outperformed DEMG. If UK is a long story let's hear it, as it certainly doesn't point to DEMG as a takeout candidate
vega44
01/5/2020
15:07
Only in the UK and that is a long story. What is LID's market share in France and Sweden for example?
nobbygnome
01/5/2020
15:03
If LID isn't competitive how has it taken so much UK market share, especially from DEMG? The numbers speak for themselves..
vega44
01/5/2020
14:39
You are so wrong. LID has no competitive advantage because it is just the same technology as everybody else. DEMG however has novel technology and just a much more flexible bit of kit. Plus the lower sales would be more attractive to the buyer because they know that with a bit of marketing spend and sales support, they could very easily grow the sales of a superior product.

There is virtually zero chance of LID being taken over.

nobbygnome
01/5/2020
14:37
Why pay for LIDCO, inferior product, you can buy a better product (DEMG) at probably a lower cost.
royalalbert
01/5/2020
14:34
If an acquire is going to enter the market, surely they will go for a market leader with growing sales, which would be LIDCO, rather than a company declining sales and weak market share?
vega44
01/5/2020
11:38
>>NobbyQuite agree that takeover talk is very real especially after Baxter deal for CheetahI just think this would be much much easier to achieve with a new Chair and at least one new non-exec and at least three fewer old onesThe Chair has been there over 30 years and is now the biggest holder. Does he really want to sell? Or is this a pet project we are all funding? He has missed the wave several times before at massive cost to long term holders and it all is crying out for a fresh head at the topYes CEO needs backing but he also needs genuine freedom to operate which you just don't get from stale boards who are out of touchNew board, new advisers, new monitor, new story. Should all be done by June with sale before ChristmasMrC
mrc2u
01/5/2020
11:12
When they dropped the price this morning there was a good level of buying which is a good sign. The takeover talk is not just idle gossip; there is a real chance it will happen in the short term. The cognoscenti involved in this company have been talking about it since the Autumn and the Covid 19 crisis has just sharpened the focus on to the possibility which could be greatly to the company's advantage.

So I think it would be a mistake to think it is just another rumour... all IMHO and DYOR.

nobbygnome
01/5/2020
11:08
The market cap is some £11m and you'd hope they'd be able to get near to half that figure in revenue this year and assuming costs are in-line they'll generating more cash and the market cap will look massively low. They clearly need to gain traction in these difficult times as the more units they have in ICUs (400k on website I think) the more necessary they become and the more they'll obviously sell. A much bigger beast with huge marketing budgets and probably lobbying would have these as standard in every hospital. Anyway, £11m market cap looks a snip assuming the co can increase revenue and start gaining some real momentum with sales.
tickboo
01/5/2020
09:36
Agreed tickboo. My average is way above 2.5p. :-(
gnnmartin
01/5/2020
09:03
Another brutal drop which seems OTT. I assume some LTHs taking some off the table while the going is better than it has been of late. Can't argue. Annoying with my buying as high as 2.5p but hey such is life and hopefully the BoD (remember CEO relatively new to the role) will ramp up sales of the TrueVue Doppler systems and when hospitals are back to more normal service with ops etc H2 the recurring revenues will also kick in. Yes they have many members of the BoD who've sat for many years but the CEO needs time and so far with costs reduced and cash being generated although not jaw dropping it's in its infancy and more of the same needed albeit accelerated this year.
tickboo
01/5/2020
07:04
The next news flow for the sector will be next Tuesday when Lidco is doing an investor webinar. As the UK market leader they'll be able to give some insight into how Covid is playing out for the sector as a whole, including DEMG. Link below..


hxxp://irpages2.equitystory.com/websites/rns_news/English/1100/news-tool---rns---eqs-group.html?article=30600163&company=lid

vega44
30/4/2020
23:05
First it is good to see you guys coming over here to join in some decent debate.
Freedom of speech is still important and banning buywell was IMO an admission of failure.

The Ramping on the other thread got the share price up as mug punters piled in

I expect others more savvy manged to slide out stage left.

The IP is around 30 years old and other Doppler firms have entered the Doppler market place. Did you guys know that ?

Even Prof Mervyn Singer the founder of the ODM probe is looking at another new technology
Did you guys know that one ?

How many probes did they sell to the NHS in the results ?

How many monitors to the NHS ?

How many FREE ones did they give away to the NHS ?

Cost cutting has made the results appear better than they are.
Cost cutting can't continue because they will have no staff left if they carried on at the same rate.

IMO dyor

It's good to talk

buywell3
30/4/2020
19:18
Cheetah a private company who have an inferior technolgy were taken over for the equivalent DEMG price of 10p. A big acquirer like Edwards would value the technology on a multiple of turnover because they know with a bit of marketing spend they could massively increase that turnover. DEMG have spent years building an evidence base which shows their technology works the best in the field. That has a big value to a company like Edwards. LID most definitely do not hav ethat evidence based and their market cap is well above DEMG at present. Oh and their technology is not proven to work in surgery....

DEMG is still cheap at this level. I was buying this afternoon when the price pulled back!

nobbygnome
30/4/2020
18:45
" cant get het up about P/E ratios" So you take no notice of underlying value and rely on exceptional events to drive your return? That's a losing strategy
t0pgrader
30/4/2020
18:17
Good spotSales growth should smash this with a new monitor post CoVid but can't get het up about P/E ratios. This should be taken over for at least 10x sales - more given Cheetah as a benchmarkNeeds new Board & new advisers, new monitor and new marketing story. Results statement was low in energy and entrepreneurship: CoVid is a huge opportunity so would have liked evidence of a desire to really grab itI bought into this years ago when I felt DEMG were driving a new market. Still believe in the technology but not impressed by them acting passively, like minnows and being driven by eventsEasily remedied with new ambitious leadership: shame if that has to come from loudmouth American acquirers but I will take the money when it comesMrC
mrc2u
30/4/2020
18:08
Thanks for the BN

Long term opportunity –

There remains a strong body of evidence that
Deltex’ technology is most effective in a broad range of treatment
conditions and that randomised trial results support an ongoing
acceptance of the technology within the industry. The improvement in
patient outcomes, limiting post-operative complications and aligning
with industry payers should support increasing demand over time.

Investment thesis and valuation

Increasing acceptance of the technology is inadvertently helped by accelerated use in COVID treatment which helps to highlight the technology’s advantages, providing a strong profile for Deltex’ business and a strong base for increasing demand moving forward as market conditions normalise. At current market cap and with a cash generative business, there is a good long-term equity story here. Buy.

euclid5
30/4/2020
16:44
According to Arden, Demg's P/E forecast is:

Y/E Dec 2020 P/E 100
Y/E Dec 2021 P/E 36

Only a takeover could sustain such a frothy share price

t0pgrader
30/4/2020
16:21
Now down some % on buy 2 days back but hey ho!!
Made more on SNG so will not send Nobbygnome an invoice yet!

mostro
30/4/2020
14:57
A poorly timed buy be me but hey am leaving it there even though I see good value here. 875,000 is my lot. A meagre holding so will ignore until RNSs are published.
tickboo
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