Debt Free Direct Share Discussion Threads

[zimbi] 13/2/2007 15:25

It is in much the same vein that these garbage IVA companies (garbage since their fees and conduct are quite outrageous) advertise by reference to a "little known piece of government legislation" (for God's sake: what other sort of legislation is to hand?) which allows these garbage mongers to render an opportunity to these hapless credit card bingers.

It was this style that put my hackles up. Basically these IVA companies are just a con job. And, like all con jobs, they will unravel. Indeed, they already are.

Simon Cawkwell


It must be like looking in the mirror.

[suncanaria] 10/2/2007 12:34

Simon Cawkwell - 8 Feb'07 - 13:26 - 820 of 825

I reckon the banks can just say to their debtors that the banks will only in practice deal with an IVA operator who is acceptable to the creditor.

I think there is a tenancy for banks to want to be the IVA operator, especially if banks such as HSBC write off losses. In the early 90s exceptional losses turned in the exceptional profits, if some recovery was made.

[jonc] 10/2/2007 12:08

Out of interest I had a meeting with an IP on Wednesday evening with one of my clients. The IP is from an old established firm not one of the IVA cos, we were obviously discussing IVAs.

He stated that it was getting more difficult to get the banks to agree to low payouts particularly if there were signs that the debtor had behaved recklessly.

[cojones] 10/2/2007 11:57

hit double bottom..... the only way is up from here!

[advfn_1] 08/2/2007 17:15

Hows your long on SBT cawkie? You called that well. LoL.

[diogenesj] 08/2/2007 14:25

Yes, much truth in that, Cawkie.

[diogenesj] 08/2/2007 12:34

Well, you are right to an extent, Cawkie. There is something unattractive about making money out of other people's troubles, even when brought about by their own folly. It is not unsimilar to selling short, which some might see as making money out of other people's losses. However, business insolvency is a perfectly respectable and highly profitable occupation for many large firms of accountants, and there seems to be little reason why the same should not be true of personal insolvency.

If these companies are overcharging, competition (and there is plenty of it) will sort that out in time. The real problem here (and the one that caused me to change my mind about the sector) is that the Consumer Credit Counselling Service, a so-called charity financed by the banks, is setting up an IVA service at cost price. Cost price is said to be £5,000, compared with £7,000 or so charged by the IVA companies. Initially this will probably not have much impact on the volume of cases, but it will certainly affect margins. No business can compete very effectively against a 'charity' charging cost price.

[25cent] 08/2/2007 11:39

Yes the banks hold a gun to your head to borrow dont they?
Why should people just spend spend spend and then run away with the help from a polecat company like this?
Added to short at 263.5p.

[maksud] 08/2/2007 11:00

simon i see you are short and want to profit from these.so in your own words you are profitering and a greedy bas?.that is exactly all buissness out their doing looking after their shareholders.
iva is agoverment legis passed years ago to help people who get in to trouble because of these banks who charge rediculous rates to borrow.
iva companys are making people aware of this legis and making money from it whats so wrong.

[simon cawkwell] 08/2/2007 10:50

DiogenesJ,

Yes, you are indeed right. I can't remember whether the Insolvency Act was passed in 1989. But it was thereabouts.

Thirty years ago, when I commenced practice as a chartered accountant in the West End I encountered a CA who had a substantial clientele based on theatrical folk (actors etc. - not those given to being dramatic) who tend to be trusting and stupid. He would inter alia claim to them that he had negotiated a personal allowance for them. Thespians fell and, I am sure, still fall for this garbage.

It is in much the same vein that these garbage IVA companies (garbage since their fees and conduct are quite outrageous) advertise by reference to a "little known piece of government legislation" (for God's sake: what other sort of legislation is to hand?) which allows these garbage mongers to render an opportunity to these hapless credit card bingers.

It was this style that put my hackles up. Basically these IVA companies are just a con job. And, like all con jobs, they will unravel. Indeed, they already are.

Simon Cawkwell

[aughton 3] 08/2/2007 10:42

shorted this the other day Simon, a certain spread betting firm rang insisting i closed the position!? have you ever come across this before

[diogenesj] 07/2/2007 16:38

But not quite sure. Actually, I think they were introduced under a previous regime in 1987.

[diogenesj] 07/2/2007 16:35

Almost sure, Cawkie. :-)

[simon cawkwell] 07/2/2007 12:41

DiogenesJ,

Are you aure that "this government" introduced IVAs?

Simon Cawkwell

[johndee] 05/2/2007 15:21

People often do IVA's because they are not told of any positive alternatives.....are desperately in need of a quick fix to their problems.......taken advantage of by companies such as these.

[diogenesj] 05/2/2007 15:09

Well, there are good reasons, Johndee, and that is why IVAs were introduced by this government. Are you repeating the same post on the board of every debt company? Odd thing to do, since you clearly don't hold the shares.

[johndee] 05/2/2007 08:49

I don't understand why anyone in their right mind would want to enter into an agreement for an IVA which is after all the nearest step into bankcruptcy when they can do informal agreements with all their unsecured creditors and still have all interest and bank charges stopped......also if things get worse in their lives they can even reduce those payments further.....but with an IVA they are bankrupt if within the 5 years things get financially worse for them............because the IVA monthly amount is fixed at the outset and has to be maintained for 5 years.....I have seen many commit to over five hundred pounds a month to an IVA.

[Abuse team] 04/2/2007 01:43

Post removed by ADVFN

[bella media] 02/2/2007 21:07

Not long now!

[ddav] 01/2/2007 07:41

From WWW.THEWRONGPRICE.COM

29/01/2007
Buy 167p
Debtmatters

Friday's profit warnings from Accuma Group and Debt Free Direct caused wholesale panic among investors in AIM's IVA (Individual Voluntary Arrangement) sector. Accuma blamed a poorly executed marketing strategy on its own part for slower than expected growth in the first half of its financial year, but its complaint of increased resistance among 'a small minority of creditors... impacting IVA approval rates' helped to cause share price falls across the board for AIM's other IVA arrangers.

After the market closed on Friday, Debt Free Direct revealed that increased competitor advertising had reduced response rates from potential IVA clients in November, December and January. Consequently, it warned that the final quarter of its 2007 financial year (which ends in April) would be challenging. However, the company was dismissive of recent 'creditor posturing', and indicated its belief that peace will break out with creditors over the coming months. Debt Free Direct still expects that profitability in 2008 will be comfortably in line with current market expectations.

The weekend business press (rather predictably) had a field day, and warned that tougher rules for the IVA sector would be forthcoming that would put further pressure on profits.

However, on Monday morning, debts.co.uk – which joined AIM last summer – released a statement in which it reported that first-half trading had been up to its best expectations and in line with market forecasts. Soon afterwards, Debtmatters itself announced that its IVA and loan broking businesses are trading in line with market expectations.

Clearly not every IVA arranger is feeling the pinch, and even Debt Free Direct seems to be indicating that current problems are mainly of a temporary nature. But Debtmatters' reassurance means that the earnings per share estimate for the year to 31 March of 23.1p can be relied upon, and this means that its shares are currently trading on a multiple of less than eight times prospective earnings! In our opinion, this is an ideal buying opportunity. Buy.

[bialystock] 31/1/2007 10:23

I think Monsieur Cawkwell has called this one bang on the money. I myself waited and waited throughout Q4 for the banks to produce a big stick and start laying about the IVA upstarts but what they came up with was more like a soggy twig, with much huffing and puffing conveying an impression that in the final analysis, they were simply incapable of bringing pressure to bear. Well, the events of the last week demonstrate in bucketloads that not only can they exert pain on the sector, but that they are now very much in control of it.

It was only through luck and gut feeling that I recently came out @ 510 after a quick 10 per cent, but in spite of having escaped the immediately ensuing share price decimation, I am in no hurry at present to go back in. I fail to see how Moneyweek, (for whom I normally have a lot of time),or any other observer can proclaim the beach safe to surf just yet. A new relationship is being slowly formulated between these leading IVA firms and the disgruntled lenders, with the immediate past of their shortlived and highly profitable stock market lives providing very little guidance IMHO, as to how they might perform going forward. That was then and this is now. If you were fortunate enough to jump on the ride at IPO and jump off ten days ago, then well done, but I don't think that's about to start all over again here.

The banks are extremely mad, they are capable of being more than bad, and for IVA companies who might have shoved their fingers too far up these creditors noses, they could yet prove very dangerous to know. They are also, it would seem, very much in the driving seat here, with several options available to them and until it becomes clear precisely what the deal is going to be as we move into what I remain convinced is going to be a debt disaster zone, I think standing back and observing might be the best policy.

[andrbea] 31/1/2007 09:22

IVA specialist Debt Free Direct recovered some ground after yesterday's 36% fall. It added 33p to 300p after Teather & Greenwood moved to a buy recommendation.