Dawnay Day Carpathian Share Discussion Threads

[hectorp] 16/7/2008 16:38

so edmundshaw they are in safe hands, he has not sold into today's rise either.
Surely only a distressed seller would have to let them go at 39p levels.
- this has become more exciting than I expected.
There is some relief in today's news of the transactions.
H.

[edmundshaw] 16/7/2008 16:32

Klimt has sold 31.38% of his interest here according to my sums, all at 38.5p and 39p.

Someon has been buying them...

Edit: not all the sold shares were just Klimt's, so that is not quite accurate.

Klimt has a "substantial interest" in Jetpath, so not all the remaining shares there are his...

[hectorp] 16/7/2008 16:24

marben.. this is rather decent news. Many thanks. Note how relatively few shares were involved here.
PS Mr Klimt still holds shares in DDC which will be his own, and not related to DD.. ? I believe.

DDC has responded today rallying over 16%. That is a darn good start to the coming year's yield and cap growth profile.

In general, with crude down considerably over two sessions, this could trigger the summer relief rally into which one has to consider DDC's situation positively.

Noted in the I-C that Value shares are at their lowest relative to growth shares for 27 years. Is DDC a Value+growth, or a value share. I suspect its a hybrid in that respect. But it is certainly to an extent value based which could be the key reason for the fall from over 110p.

[aleman] 16/7/2008 16:18

Oil down $6 again! Shares motoring up at the moment.

[marben100] 16/7/2008 16:16

So, here's the confirmation that DD Group were forced sellers of DDC:

[hectorp] 16/7/2008 15:33

Good Aleman, and much in common with BOE and FED view that Inflation will peak within the next 6 motths or so, thanks to scaling off of demand etc.

fugwit, such is life, there was a strong chance of this rise ias I saw it and I added twice average price of 39p. I've never held so many DDC's.
I'd also certain want to see us in the 60's. I feel it will take a bear market rally however to get us higher than that sort of level, and then we have the next dividend.
By the time the next bear market rally is over, maybe before Christmas time, inflation will be falling. However I must keep an eye on these local conditions in E -Europe and with excellent commentators on the ground this thread is very fortunate to have such informed posters.

[fugwit] 16/7/2008 15:13

You were right Hectorp and I missed the boat on this last rise, hopefully get another chance but looking like that meay be wishful thinking at the mo. Nice to see some sense returning...long way to go of course.

[edmundshaw] 16/7/2008 14:32

I shan't be laughing to the bank till we get to 60p at least. This price is crazy.

Actually, I thought about selling a few myself, but I thought it looked like there is a serious buyer, so waited for him to come back. But you took the low risk approach, no harm in that - I'm sure you can find excellent bargains in this market with your proceeds. And it may yet look like the right decision...

[nickcduk] 16/7/2008 14:19

Looks like I closed out too early this morning. Grrrrr. Surprising how when the shares are up sharply the board is empty. Hopefully you are all laughing all the way to the bank. Long may it continue. Good luck.

[hectorp] 16/7/2008 09:08

morning Marben
I infer there is an IC 'tip' or comment on Property sector.
I've not been out yet today.
What you say is of course correct re markets. Also it is amazing how few investors look beyond their own shores and take a hit on core holdings at home in their ISA's and SIPPS when there are always rising markets - or sectors, or niches- elsewhere which are not falling. It's also true of the Yanks. Russian commercial property also doing fine, they are all at different stages in their cycles.
edited
DDC up over 4 pence at 1.14 PM clearly some demand.

[edmundshaw] 16/7/2008 09:07

Mark, yes; apart from asset sales

[marben100] 16/7/2008 08:59

"but the credit crunch in the UK and European property markets is deepening, impacting negatively on rents, asset values and (crucially) sentiment"

Pretty poor journalism from the IC as usual. Lumping the UK & all European property markets together (except on the basis of sentiment - i.e. stock investor/trader behaviour) is ridiculous. Each market is individual & different - e.g. Spain is currently a disastrous property market, Poland is very different. Hungary is different again.

I have seen no evidence of falling retail rentals in most areas of DDC's portfolio.

On a medium/long term view it is rental income vs interest rates that will drive everything.

[nickcduk] 16/7/2008 08:40

A sharp burst of interest at 41.5p drove the price up. I don't think its going to last so decided to sell out my holding from a couple of days ago. Ready to pick it up again around 39p if it falls back.

[hectorp] 16/7/2008 08:32

Interesting , the share just put on 10% !

[hectorp] 16/7/2008 08:02

DDC not the same issue.. from Monday,

....Carpathian wishes to stress to shareholders that the Company, save as
mentioned in this announcement, is totally unaffected
by the reported problems at DDG - in particular it owns all its assets, which are in any event
held independently of the Dawnay, Day Group.
In addition, the Company is financially independent of the Dawnay, Day Group and the Board
comprises four non-executive directors, of which
three are independent.....

[edmundshaw] 16/7/2008 07:50

DTR not happy with the financials of their asset management co - RNS today. They have apparently been shtum while talking to them...

[hectorp] 15/7/2008 20:49

We agree W-b.
Its a fascinating time, more so if we keep some powder dry.

[williebiz] 15/7/2008 19:58

A lot of us in the loss boat this year, H.

Snapback due on many shares.

Worst thing to do would be to sell at oversold SPs IMV

[hectorp] 15/7/2008 19:54

anything is possible these days jonwig.
But there have certainly been sone strong signs, that new investors and others are interested in sustaining our company and the DD Stable of orphans.. sniff!

[jonwig] 15/7/2008 19:20

Thanks, es - I hadn't seen today's RNS.

But director selling of DTR when there has been no announcement on its future is decidedly strange ... it can only mean an announcement isn't imminent.

[edmundshaw] 15/7/2008 18:35

The DTR article is already out of date, jonwig. The next day Peter Klimt and Guy Naggar sold a heap more, about 60% of their exposure I make it.

[loganair] 15/7/2008 18:19

Investors Chronicle:

The three funds - Dawnay, Day Sirius, Dawnay, Day Carpathian, and Dawnay, Day Treveria may operate independently of the eponymous group, but the credit crunch in the UK and European property markets is deepening, impacting negatively on rents, asset values and (crucially) sentiment. That said, Carpathian and Treveria have been punished enough, and their even larger discounts to NAV now justify a good value rating.

[jonwig] 15/7/2008 17:39

From Property Week:

Vultures start to circle Dawnay Day trust

16:55 | 15.07.08

By Mike Phillips

Activist investor Laxey Partners has snapped up almost 8% of Dawnay Day Sirius.

Sirius is managed by a subsidiary of Dawnay Day, the troubled financial and property investment group.

Dawnay Day owners Peter Klimt and Guy Naggar have been selling off share positions in Sirius for the past three days as lenders demand the repayment of money used to buy the shares. This is part of a wider asset sale, with Ernst & Young called in to advise Dawnay Day on restructuring the group.

Funds under the management of Laxey Partners bought a 7.8% stake, almost 24m shares, in Sirius. In the past two days companies controlled by Klimt and Naggar have closed more than 20m contracts for difference held over Sirius shares.

Laxey typically attempts to buy a stake in a company it feels is underperforming and then press for changes to the management structure. It recently called for an extraordinary meeting of shareholders in NR Nordic, a Euronext listed company in which Ian and Richard Livingston are major investors, and called for a seat on the board.

Laxey also looks to profit by buying stakes in companies and selling them on to facilitate takeovers.

And:

Dawnay Day directors sold property trust shares

18:05 | 14.07.08

By Mike Phillips

Guy Naggar and Peter Klimt, the owners of beleaguered financial group Dawnay Day, sold more than £3m worth of shares in the listed property trusts that their financial services company manages last Friday.

The owners of Dawnay Day Group sold contracts for difference over shares in Dawnay Day Treveria and Dawnay Day Sirius, AIM-listed property funds which Dawnay Day manages.

Shares in Treveria fell 13% to €0.29 today, and shares in Sirius fell 9% to €0.43, following reports that Dawnay Day had brought in Ernst & Young to restructure the group. Last week it sold a 20% stake in fund manager F&C for a loss.

Indirect interests

The sales were undertaken through private investment vehicles in which Klimt and Naggar have a substantial interest. On Friday, Jetpath and Mariona sold 4,350,000 and 4,550,000 respectively, at an average price of €0.34c a share. The majority of the shares, 8.7m, were bought by a division of Swiss investment bank LCF Edmond de Rothschild.

The sale represented 1.5% of the company. Klimt and Naggar still have an indirect economic interest in 7% of Treveria.

Supernova Holdings, a company in which Klimt has a substantial interest, on Friday sold 2.7m shares in Sirius, at an average price of €0.43. Through holding companies, Klimt and his family have an indirect interest in 2.3% of Sirius' shares.