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Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Cyanconnode Holdings Plc LSE:CYAN London Ordinary Share GB00BF93WP34 ORD 2P
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -0.15 -4.11% 3.50 3.40 3.60 3.65 3.50 3.65 1,050,360 13:07:44
Industry Sector Turnover (m) Profit (m) EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap (m)
Technology Hardware & Equipment 4.5 -6.3 -4.3 - 6

Cyanconnode Share Discussion Threads

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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
22/5/2019
13:32
SMIP Further ..... Here is what was said when Connode was acquired in 2016: "Connode was awarded a contract for 1.8 million C4 units across the central and southern regions of the UK by Toshiba, with an expected rollout date starting during the second half of 2016. The Directors believe that Connode is one of very few suppliers globally that has the capability to support smart meter deployment in areas where there is no cellular coverage. Connode's potential revenue from SMIP is set out in the table below: Current contract Expected Best case Contracted GBP4.4 million GBP5.9 million GBP9.3 million licence fees until 2020 Support fees GBP19.3 million GBP28.0 million (over 15 years) Total GBP4.4 million GBP25.2 million GBP37.3 million Initially, SMIP was intended to commence in December 2015, however the UK Government announced in March 2015 that the roll out would be delayed by four months until April 2016. In August 2015, the UK Government announced that SMIP would be further delayed until August 2016. British energy suppliers still expect that the August 2016 deadline is achievable and that there are unlikely to be further delays. However, the UK Government has stated that all deadlines are subject to change as may be determined by the UK Secretary of State.” https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/cyanconnode-CYAN/share-news/Cyan-Holdings-Plc-12-6m-Placing-Subscription-and/71722721 Based on the balance reported in the 2018 accounts of £24m, at the year end, it appears the SMIP contract is currently worth: “Current” £3.2m “Expected” £24.m “Best” £36.1m My guess is the contract will turn out to worth between “Current” and “Expected”
davep4
21/5/2019
18:31
Correct, 500k licences were pre-sold by Connode.
davep4
21/5/2019
15:18
Connode pre-sold 500k licences for the UK SMIP programme (confirmed in presentation slide deck in the header - Page 18). So it will be probably next financial year, before we start seeing any revenues from this, unless there is a massive increase in the installation of SMETS2 meters. £3.60 one off initiation and 62.4p/year recurrent - still a decent sum given the numbers involved x 15 years !
multibagger
21/5/2019
15:14
It's not 200k, it's 500k. So probs nothing next year either. 'The first 500,000 licences were purchased from Connode, prior to its acquisition and therefore CyanConnode does not expect material revenue from this contract during 2019.'Last week's RNS
fred splange
21/5/2019
15:01
Hi davep4,Thanks for the great summary. Unfortunately they reminded us last Wednesday that Connode had bundled 200k licences with the initial contract, so we won't receive any revenue until the absolute end of the year ? unless the installation rate increases substantially and/or the Not-Spots outperforms 10%.But..... pay day is approaching! tightfist
tightfist
21/5/2019
12:24
FS, sorry for the delay in providing the information: 1) Telefónica say the contract is for 23.5m communication hubs: https://www.slideshare.net/M2MTelefonica/telefonica-smart-metering-value-proposition 2) Telefónica say 10% of communication hubs will be the cellular & mesh variant: https://slideplayer.com/slide/10243641/ 3) Telefónica say ~5% of communication hubs will use mesh (~4% boundary mesh + ~1% requiring mesh connectivity), equating to 1.175m hubs: https://slideplayer.com/slide/10243641/ 4) Cyan say 10% of communication hubs will use mesh, equating to 2.35m hubs: https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/london/cyanconnode-CYAN/share-news/CyanConnode-Holdings-PLC-Final-Results/79894220 5) Zigbee is used for the Home Area Network (HAN), for connecting the in-home display, (smart energy tracker), and gas meter (if present). Cellular is the wide area network, (WAN), which is used to communicate with the DCC. When the communication hub doesn’t have a WAN connection RF mesh is used, (MESH), to connect to a hub that has a WAN connection. MESH can daisy chain or hop several times from one cellular & mesh hub to another, until a WAN connection is found. https://forum.ovoenergy.com/smart-meter-booking-and-installations-66/smets2-smart-meter-installation-6181 6) Cyan’s estimate is twice that of Telefónica’s and with SMETS2 installations running at 200k a month, it shouldn’t be too long before we find out which estimate is correct, (906k SMETS2 meters are now connected to the DCC). https://www.smartdcc.co.uk/ https://www.smart-energy.com/industry-sectors/business-finance-regulation/uk-hits-500-000-smart-meters-install-rate-must-double-smets2/ (~ weak approximation).
davep4
21/5/2019
11:44
Hi pldazzle,They seem to be well hidden (confusing title?) on the site but can be found here (tt=xx);hXXps://cyanconnode.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/CyanConnode-Final-Results-2019-Presentation-FINAL_15.05.19.pdfAs I mentioned last week 90% of the content was NOT delivered by JC, the slides were presented by Anil (India) and the Connode APAC RoW lead; as a result I found the presentation far more credible. In particular it was intimated that competitor EESL had had cancelled $6.4m worth out of the $10m orders, and that they have only deployed circa 200k meters.Yes, IMO it's an ultra-high Risk/Reward company, (but in an a receivership scenario surely the IP must be worth a useful amount, as is the imminent cash flow from UK SMETS2 Not-Spots). Remember the current MC is a lowly £10.4m......NED and 10% holder DJ-P was in attendance and interjecting at various points. IMHO Deloitte were used as the ultimate revenue recognition umpire between the ED's and NED's, including DJ-P. IoT was played down; market development and revenue prospects were the focus. The brief video of CC automated board production was a separate file; I found it reassuring that something is on the ground and visible, presumably to serve the slide 13 "Others 35%" (non-licensees?) in due course?.Cheers, tightfist
tightfist
19/5/2019
14:55
Flag counter has been set up - if the Indian flag comes on, maybe Anil is having a nosey ? This page is getting more traffic than I expected...clearly a number of lurkers as opposed to active posters. Welcome France, Malta !
multibagger
19/5/2019
06:50
From the meeting - It just reminded me that Anil mentioned that he sometimes reads the BBs and notes the discussions and he knows that people in the UK "get upset or anxious" about Cyan.
multibagger
19/5/2019
06:48
Courtesy of and with thanks to ImperialLondon on the other thread... From Mr Anil Daulani's presentation on 15 May 2019 - India Smart metering projects: Submitted tenders : 1.935 million Due to be submitted within 30 days : 578k New opportunities : 850k Cyan target in India for 2019 is 1m smart meter order bookings. With us bidding with all 3 Smart Meter manufacturers like Genus, L&T and HPL who control 50% of the smart metering market, we have effectively 3 shots at every bid. Anil confirmed that Cyan have the largest smart meter deployments in India (about 150k so far, including the single largest project 70k at Indore). This has over 99.5% uptime with 193 meter readings per day per meter...revenue increase due to billing efficiency has gone up by about 23%-26% or so. Return on investment in Cyan smart metering is approx 1 year and 3 months to 1yr 6 months. Indore has provided verifiable and evidenced data on the business case for smart metering and has been visited as a reference site by various discoms and utilities. For comparison, L&G has 60k deployments and Itron (SSN) has 67k deployments in total in India - these are our nearest competitors. Trilliant is just entering the market and have Head End Software project for what remains of EESL. L&G are more expensive than us and involved in South Delhi project. Itron have not bid on any contracts as they don't have a Tier 1 manufacturer tie up, after Genus started partnering with us. Also more expensive than us. Wirepas is a new competitor but no tie up with Tier 1, so looking at Tier 2 meter manufacturers and could become a competitor in the future. Slides with these details were put up at the meeting. We were not involved in the EESL project at all and the vast majority of EESL contracts awarded (10.04m) have subsequently cancelled (6.4m). All in all, India led by Anil is in a very strong position.Election related delays to "code of conduct period", contract awards and implementation ( involving an electorate of 900m spread over 6 weeks, results due on 23 May 2019) has effectively lost us about 4-5 months of this FY. Still we are in a very strong position....it is a fund manager from L&G selling off Cyan due to instructions from higher up in the L&G corporate chain, due to changes in their business strategy that is causing the price to fall. Nothing company specific in my view.
multibagger
17/5/2019
23:14
Tight & Empty ... maybe non-execs weren’t enthusiastic about the CEO & COO receiving bonuses for revenues that had no certainty of being delivered, (a repeat of 2017 bonuses paid for NIK order)? Perhaps it even resulted in changes to the BoD.
davep4
17/5/2019
22:59
tightfist 3189 - "Wednesday’s slides are now uploaded to the Cyan website" Where? On hTTps://cyanconnode.com/presentations-and-videos/ there's a video of JC discussing the slides, but I can't seem to find them anywhere in legible format. Can you give the link?
pldazzle
17/5/2019
21:34
Updated the BB header with recent information From 08 May when L&G went below 3%, approx 2.6m shares in large round numbers appear to have been sold since then. This could mean that they have another 2.85m to possibly dispose before L&G are fully out. Pure speculation on my part....
multibagger
17/5/2019
21:19
I don't buy the "very high level in Deloittes" line. The Audit partner in charge would make that call. It is important that revenue recognition is prudent - but fair....and if it includes estimates of not-spots etc I can see that might cause conflict. Ultimately, though, it is what it is....and anything held back for want of proof will flow through eventually.
emptyend
17/5/2019
21:11
Thanks for that. Certainly SMETS2 now rolling.....
emptyend
17/5/2019
20:27
Hi davep4, In terms of revenue recognition from BI, I gather that BI actually have to make and ship the nodes, for our revenue element to be recognised. I wonder once the first node is made, whether the IP element of the contract could be recognised or not - which could be substantial ? So for BI to make the nodes (and not build up excessive inventory), BI would need a customer. Let's hope they are in the process of customer acquisition for their (also our) product in countries where we are not represented. I got the distinct impression that there has been a real crackdown on revenue recognition in light of various high profile companies being given a clean bill of health by their Auditors and then suddenly finding themselves going bust - Carillion, Patisserie Valerie etc. I also got the impression that the caveat that we are "exploring funding options" statement was a part of extreme stress testing of a company's finances by the Auditors - in the event there is no new business to come our way and existing contracts faced undue payment delay.
multibagger
17/5/2019
19:00
Hi Davep,The CEO and COO needed to book the BI licence income to meet their 2018 bonus threshold. (What the non-execs thought we know not?) but a lot of emphasis (JC, H) was put on it being disallowed at a very high level in Deloitte - it seems more like common sense to me......
tightfist
17/5/2019
13:26
MB not so with BI licence, production capability in 2019 H2 and therefore income now hoped for in 2020.
davep4
17/5/2019
13:15
Looks like L&G are continuing to sell down....have to try and work out how many they may have left.
multibagger
17/5/2019
13:11
Revenue recognition guidance and rules is very specific apparently. So what would appear as homogenous "contracts" with various discoms in India, each has its own revenue recognition profile. I did not realise the complexity of this issue. Also I raised the issue of lack of numbers/missing information in RNS releases and was told that if all the numbers/information was put in, competitors could work out our price points and margins. So frustrating though it maybe from a shareholder perspective, I agree that for the greater good and long term prospects of the company it is better that entire information is not in the RNS. As davep4 says, it was confirmed that the quantum of "reduced" revenue for 2018, has not been lost, but will be reflected in 2019 accounts. So a question of timing.
multibagger
17/5/2019
13:03
IMO we need to attract "new money" and see the precursors to that, eg some big orders or a licensing deal with one of the three big Indian market players..FYI Wednesday's slides are now uploaded to the Cyan website
tightfist
17/5/2019
11:29
No inflection in the shareprice graph line.
orange1
17/5/2019
11:26
davep, that's very helpful indeed - thanks. Best regards SBP
stupidboypike
17/5/2019
11:15
Maybe there is an inflection point in the company transforming pipeline causing all the white labels to clump together constricting the newsflow phase.
mtw
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