Cropper (james) Share Discussion Threads

[princekie] 29/8/2024 17:59

AGM next week

I'm very much looking forward to attending this.

[zingaro] 27/8/2024 12:14

AGM next week.

[value viper] 21/8/2024 13:43

Nibblers at 239AGM 4/9/24 next update of sorts assume

[princekie] 08/8/2024 14:57

In response to Darrin, no offence but the shares are cheap enough. Under £3, and I originally bought mine at over £6!
Like I said I know a fair bit about the company. I would (for the sake of the people I know who work there) like to see it flourish.

[value viper] 07/8/2024 14:12

Liontrust and the PCBs own near 40% of the shares between them, more than the concert party fwiwLiontrust in particular need to start pressuring if they are not alreadyIssues seem clearEverything has a price btw

[darrin1471] 07/8/2024 10:54

Princekie Member since: 14 Jul 2024
One post.

It could be somebody trying to buy your shares on the cheap.

[princekie] 07/8/2024 09:52

I sold the bulk of my shares when they were at £14. Bought them at a reduced rate of £6 back in 2015 when I worked for the company. I still have 5 shares left (!), plus I live near Kendaland regularly bump into people who work at the plant.
Lots of interesting comments on here, and as an ex-employee who also has a huge interest in financials I'll try and bring some clarity to the table. First of all, the company's glory years were when the other CEO was leading the charge. He had vision, and between 2016 to 2020 the company had a few good projects on the go. However there is a large proportion of senior and junior management who do not want to see progress, and who seem to stifle innovation at every opportunity. Additionally there is the idea that "paper should be carried by TFP even if it runs at a loss, as TFP was carried by the paper arm". That, I believe, won't change. There is also a deep culture of nepotism and cronyism endemic throughout the company. The previous CEO knew he was "banging his head against a brick wall". So did the previous Chief Finance officer, hence her decision to quit. It really is a malfunctioning company (albeit with potential).
Without trying to sound like a know it all, I saw this coming back in 2017. The toxic environment, blind faith in old products and poor internal structure has led this company onto it's present trajectory.

[value viper] 05/8/2024 15:16

Couple of sub 250p buyers in a mass risk off market

[darrin1471] 01/8/2024 17:51

I'm holding and in profit, which allows me to feel more positive than others.

[value viper] 01/8/2024 13:47

So any of you chaps actually own shares here out of interest?!

[boonkoh] 01/8/2024 12:14

Concert party holds 35%+ so no external activist or shareholder is going to get involved in trying to realise the AM value.And as others said, historic legacy and other factors will mean Paper will continue to be in the mix. It's a horrible business, barely profitable most years, and loss making in like the last 4 out of 6.The key question is whether management are good enough to leverage the potential of AM, or are they the wrong managers (having grown up in sleepy Paper?). For example, CEO Adams is from Paper... Incoming CFO has lightweight past experience with growth...They might just mismanage the golden goose and let it die instead of thrive.

[jackson102] 25/7/2024 07:36

I feel the situation is so severe the company will not survive unless they fundamentally address issues. It’s very clear TFP is the profit making business and p&p is just holding it back and will eventually kill the company. This requires strong and experienced business leadership which is lacking, certainly at chair level. With the AGM imminent there is an opportunity to both vote and verbalise this issues on behalf of shareholders to send a clear message.

[darrin1471] 24/7/2024 20:48

It's my impression that the paper mill and associated products are historic but also premium and technical paper products. The advanced materials grew on the back of the paper and are intertwined on the mill site.
Advanced materials may have been created by a retired employee 30 years ago but somebody has taken it to where it is today and into the right growth areas. The Cropper family has green credentials and their vision by luck or judgment has put advanced materials in several exciting end markets.
The paper industry has struggled with high energy and pulp paper prices over the last couple of years. Paper has been downsized and jobs have been lost. It is the advanced materials that led to the higher share price of the previous 10 years and it will be advanced materials that will lead the share price higher again.

[pugugly] 24/7/2024 18:43

sp down 68% in last year - Last 3 years negative 3 cash flow - Could be death by 1000 cuts or possibly if Lab change the IHT business asset exemptions -

[thiopia] 24/7/2024 16:46

never going to happen, very 'this is a local town for local people' vibe round there

[arthur_lame_stocks] 24/7/2024 15:23

From memory TFP made a net profit of around £5m last year and the property assets must be worth a fair bit but there's also the debt and pension fund to consider. Might be better to bite the bullet and close down P&P and leave the rest in shareholders hands.

[pugugly] 24/7/2024 15:16

Anyone done the sums as to what this coy might be worth to an asset stripper. ie:- Buy and liquidate. Also what return they might expect to make?

[pockstones] 24/7/2024 10:06

Noblesse oblige I think the Cropper family lack the readies so expect external investors to stump up and so far they have

[arthur_lame_stocks] 24/7/2024 09:42

The point is if preserving local employment is more important than shareholder returns, take the damn company private.

[pockstones] 24/7/2024 07:34

Not much evidence that this business is run for all shareholders
The cropper family feel a historic obligation to run a loss making paper business for local employment benefits and willingly sacrifice the commercial success of the advanced materials business developed by a retired employee some thirty years ago and the independent non executives seem to go along with it bearing out Ken Morrisons view that there is more independence in a supermarket trolly than a non executive

[value viper] 24/7/2024 06:41

Interesting points and I agree the historic numbers kind of speak for themselves. But as investors, one needs to look forward from now and what are they saying : in line with signs of improvement. So what's in the current price - assuming business can improve, the banks will be happy for starters.I agree that something might need to be done with the P&P business and maybe the new M&A hire will be looking at such things.Suppose more broker comment will follow.I would also say I would like to see directors with more skin in the game.

[arthur_lame_stocks] 23/7/2024 20:09

I'm not sure it's ego, it may just be an unwillingness to let go of the foundation of the business.

[jackson102] 23/7/2024 19:39

The paper market continues to consolidate and become commoditised. It’s not by chance that paper mills in the uk are down from the 100’s to single figures today. I understood the plan from the previous executive team was to significantly downsize / sell paper and focus the attention to TFP. This is maybe why they were asked to leave. The more recent constant change of executives and the fascination of rebranding divisions is taking the attention away from the real issues. Is ego driving the chair’s decision making? The non execs must take control of a dreadful situation.