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CREO Creo Medical Group Plc

34.00
-0.75 (-2.16%)
Last Updated: 09:42:14
Delayed by 15 minutes
Share Name Share Symbol Market Type Share ISIN Share Description
Creo Medical Group Plc LSE:CREO London Ordinary Share GB00BZ1BLL44 ORD GBP0.001
  Price Change % Change Share Price Bid Price Offer Price High Price Low Price Open Price Shares Traded Last Trade
  -0.75 -2.16% 34.00 33.00 35.00 34.75 34.00 34.75 51,294 09:42:14
Industry Sector Turnover Profit EPS - Basic PE Ratio Market Cap
Surgical,med Instr,apparatus 27.17M -26.94M -0.0746 -4.62 124.63M
Creo Medical Group Plc is listed in the Surgical,med Instr,apparatus sector of the London Stock Exchange with ticker CREO. The last closing price for Creo Medical was 34.75p. Over the last year, Creo Medical shares have traded in a share price range of 23.25p to 49.50p.

Creo Medical currently has 361,251,418 shares in issue. The market capitalisation of Creo Medical is £124.63 million. Creo Medical has a price to earnings ratio (PE ratio) of -4.62.

Creo Medical Share Discussion Threads

Showing 1001 to 1021 of 2325 messages
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DateSubjectAuthorDiscuss
19/10/2010
17:00
longsight - did they say when the Q3 results may be released?
flip101
19/10/2010
16:34
Longsight, I have also been surprised at the broker notes and their target prices. After all, we were told that Far-East investors understand our assets more and should value them more favourably. In reality they can't look beyond a yield. CREO was not originally a company to create income, it was a capital gains vehicle.

The manager should buy a property, get it to a mature stage (TB and Central Plaza) and then sell for a capital gain. Unfortunately management have got tied up in try to grow the business (in size) rather than maximising shareholder returns.

Transaction values more than underpin the current book value of 4.00SGD/share however all we have is investors looking at the cash flow. What Richard David should do is sell an asset, prove the underlying asset values and buy back stock.

If anyone can tell you they can create a better return in commercial property in Shanghai than buying back shares at this current level is lying. I do not want to see further cash being spend on an asset when they can purchase shares at a 65% discount to NAV.

flip101
19/10/2010
04:53
Eddie - I read the CIMB note & contacted TCT & got their feedback. Their view was that the CIMB note made unrealistically pessimistic & indeed simplistic assumptions on the P&L for the next 3 years. Apparantly Qtr results are due out soon & will cast some light on how things are going better than the research notes anticipate. We all know - certainly those of us who read the Accounts of CREO & the listing doc for TCT - that TCT was not projected to make a profit this year. But, in fact, the news flow since TCT listed has been very good.

Eddie - you have yet to acknowledge a single positive on TCT. I am very surprised that the opinions of Jing Ulrich & Churchouse & the recent reports of the FT carry no weight with you on the prospects for Shanghai & the coming PRC financial services & domestic consumption booms. The "research" notes seem quite unaware of these factors & the transformative potential they hold for TCT.

Incidentally, I thought your contributions on PMHL were bearish but fantastic. Thank you. I thought your contributions on WCC were bearish & rubbish. I think your contributions on TCT were bearish but initially very valuable but are now merely bearish. In fact, I have never read a contribution from you that was other than bearish on any share. Interesting.

longsight
18/10/2010
17:26
Another research note out - on company website from CIMB. surprised it hasn't been commented on. 12m target $1.83 with buy rec (great, but the ask was $1.80 on first day it listed!)

Highlights low P/BV, but again what is clearly evident is lack of profit and cashflow. Quite a lot of financials on Co and many listed peers. should be a good detailed read.

eddie1980
13/10/2010
18:26
Parkson is very lo rent but all the leases coming up for renewal are commanding higher rents - not surprising since rents are growing historically at average in excess of 10%pa. Cap values are important - quite possible that TCT will sell some of portfolio e.g. Treasury Bg. Last 2 sales achieved higher sale prices than ind valuer's estimates. Worth noting that e.g. Central Plaza was valued at 28000RMB sqm by latest research note. TCT ind valued at 42,000RMB but very recent loacal sale of comparable Office block sold in excess of 55,000RMB.

Do you sell now at what I think is close to the lowest point for the share price or do you hold? I think you ignore the value being added to the portfolio by the management.

longsight
13/10/2010
18:19
ps and I don't think capital value growth will drive this share - that is evident already. (look at PMHL for market sentiment on asset values - less than cash, but as it expects it to go into property, its not interested).

Unless the Co is broken up and sold, it won't play a part. Market will put a value on the assets, when those assets start producing returns - which is back to the issue on income.

eddie1980
13/10/2010
18:16
Reasons were exposure to China. Was looking to allocate some to commercial real estate and also wanted far eastern exposure. The restatement of results into GBP also added increased gains each year as Chinese currency increased.

What this masked tho on initial considerations was the fact it had such poor income from rents. my fault for not digging.

In 5 years I am sure this will not be where it is now. The problem lies with where it will be in 12 months - still years away from collecting enough rents to cover costs (based on brokers estimates). We are not talking about an upstart trading co where the market is happy to price in profit growth, this is hold real estate and collect rent company. Yes, extentions give the growth angle, but they should be able to achieve a profit on any rental building.

My thoughts is exactly that - they must have a lot of leases for less than commercial returns, otherwise why such low yields? However I am sure you stated on here that the company said apart from Parkson, all were market rates. So again, I wonder why such poor performance.

TCT are in competion with all other real estate co's for the allocation of investors resources (money!). And currently, other co's achieve a high net profit return on their rents. That is why they are valued at close to NAV - because their assets have that value in producing income. TCT does not as it does not produce income.

When TCT can show it can use its assets to produce cashflow, the market will take interest. But when will that be? If we are waiting 3 years to turn positive, we could be sitting here for a long time. As it is, the share price is down circa 15% since relist, at not much off levels since the duldroms of 2009 - that shows u what Asian investors think of it. And now we are the middle of a bull run. I would hate to see what would happen if the market turns bearish, even short term.

eddie1980
13/10/2010
16:02
The historical figures are fact - rents don't cover the costs. why do you think that is?

Based on the current NAV, what is the current yield of TCT? Do you think that that makes the value of the buildings seem good value, or that the values seem high based on the rents they make.

Why do you not consider the actual results it produces. Simply saying NAV will rocket is hardly a good basis. Even if Shanghai booms, who says TCT will? Would love to know your thoughts on why the company cannot even break even on rental income - after all, that is its purpose.

No ludricous posts on WCC. I think I just agreed with some of the non popular people on there regarding articles in the Chinese press. Done very well on that thank you, so you don't need to worry there.

I just have never seen u even contemplate the actual financials it makes.

I assume on WCC you have price targets based on your 2010 and 2011 EPS forecasts. Well, if TCT makes 10c in 2013 as forecast, and based on your prediction of $4 within a year, that makes a 2 year forward EPS of 40. Would you pay that for WCC? Suspect you would sell as think it was overvalued. So why do you think investors will pay $4 for TCT to earn 10c in 2 years time?

eddie1980
13/10/2010
15:03
I read the Sunday Times and yes read that article. But there is another side - the article focuses on a whole new financial district to be built. This is something that is never mentioned on here - supply.

There may well be an increase in financial wealth in Shanghai, leading to an increase in consumer wealth leading to an increase in retail spending which should be good news for real estate offering retail estate owners potential rewards.

But, there is still an increase in Supply of building space too, meaning it is not guaranteed that those offering retail space now will not necessarily be the best, or where the demnad is, in a few years. The volume of space may prevent rents going anywhere. Building of whole new areas as highlighted in the article just go to prove that. Whose to say new retail buildings will be built right next to the new financial district so the bankers can spend their wealth.

I cannot be certain (and I suspect no one on here can) but I would imagine Shanghai is not like London or New York, where supply is relatively fixed. You cant just go build a new regent st or bond st. In Shanghai, as the article shows, new areas are still being built. They also focus on malls, as opposed to shops in streets like the UK/US. Once inside a mall, it does not matter where u are so long as its accessable.

So a boom in retail in Shanghai is not comparable to some of the traditional cities for retail space. Apart from Westfield, where else has any new significant retail space being added? Then, what happens if there is a slowdown - demand slows and if new supply is being added, there is further pressure for the real estate companies.

The observations from other asian real estate Co's in the recent note i posted the link was that both had net margins of 40%. TCT makes a loss yet they only have gearing of 35%? this is a major worry and is why TCT is probably so unfavoured by the markets.

Assume I bought a building for £1m. If it was yielding 6%, I would get £60k rent. Borrowing 35% of costs to fund the purchase at say 5% would give me costs of £17.5 - that still leaves £42.5k. less some mgmt fees and have a net income of say £35k. Great, shareholders receive it as dividend. TCT - they can't even make rent cover interest and mgmt fees. This is why the stock is not wanted.

They are forecast to make NO money (not just good returns) until 2013. So when will the price pick up? When they can show they can make money. when will this be? I know markets are forward looking, but they obviously do not want a Chinese property company that cannot make any income for 3 years. I know you are hung up on the apparent gap to NAV. Well all the broker report have commented on the apparent high valuation of their NAV. Would you buy a building for a yield of 3%, 2%, because TCT can't be making much more, if any, if they cannot break even on rents with 35% gearing.

Do you not wonder why they cannot make a simple rent less interest less fees make any money?

(oh, and I can;t sell the shares as TDW have not credited them. The sad fact for me was that all the forecast information was only made available as part of the transfer to Singapore and so was not fully aware of this until it was too late as TDW seem to have done a vanishing trick with the shares)

eddie1980
13/10/2010
12:38
Eddie - not a short term play. Obviously you think it is or shd be - so I understand why you are so disappointed. I think you shd sell asap because this share requires patience. For those who are interested in the long term story, I strongly recommend reading the previous posts on Shanghai & its prospects.
longsight
13/10/2010
12:21
Talks about recent rise in Chinese markets over past 5 days. 'Property devolopers led the way' - sadly TCT continues its drift downwards. Maybe they should have gone for a China listing!
eddie1980
12/10/2010
17:15
"The target is to be a world financial, shipping and trading centre," said Ding Jianping, a professor at Shanghai Financial University. "The natural harbour is the biggest in Asia, the facilities will rival Japan and South Korea, and there will be a new trading zone around the Hongqiao airport near the city centre," said the professor, who also advises the government."

Note the new trading zone around Hongqiao airport - I think this will be very positive for TCT's City Centre Buildings which is in Hongqiao Business District.

longsight
12/10/2010
15:10
kimboy2 - thank you v much.

I have been beating the drum on this theme for some time on here. If you believe in the Shanghai story then TCT is a great play on this, imo.

I spoke to TCT in Shanghai today & their view is that the recent brokers's notes on TCT are far too conservative & frankly ill informed. e.g. TCT told me that Central Plaza was valued at just RMB28k per sq m in the latest note in comparison with 42,000RMB by TCT's independent valuer - & in fact a local Office block had sold recently for in excess of 50,000 RMB.

TCT forsees far higher growth rates in cap values & rents than assumed in the notes. They also see opex costs dropping as a % of rents. Unlike the research notes TCT is very confident that divi payments will be maintained & the 5c for 2010 H2 is a marker for 2011 & 2012 i.e. we might expect FY divis of 10c. Quarter Results are due in late Oct / early Nov & TCT are confident that analysts will like the numbers.

Assets & income are in RMB but long term debt is 84% in US$. Interest costs have dropped dramatically with the recently negotiated new loans.

A lousy share price performance thus far - but my projections look great on income & share price growth over the next 1 to 5 years.

longsight
12/10/2010
07:36
TCT is on TDW
kimboy2
10/10/2010
18:20
kimboy - what was the gist? There has been quite a lot recently about the propects for Shanghai as a financial services centre in the FT & on Bloomberg. It is anticipated that Shanghai will soon emerge as the third largest stock exchange by capitalisation.
longsight
10/10/2010
13:11
Very bullish article in the Sunday Times about Shanghai.
kimboy2
06/10/2010
13:07
Paulzh

Just read your post - I have complained already - getting nowhere!

Cheers
John

one for the money
02/10/2010
20:29
paulzh - sorry to hear about your problem. Truly outrageous, imo. I have an account with TDW but wd not use them on CEO / TCT but instead used an old fashioned private broker that got my shares reregistered within 2 days of TCT listing in Singapore.

My advice is to give TDW an enormous kick up the backside.

longsight
01/10/2010
23:04
Still no shares from TDW. I've written to complain a couple of times but get nowhere. Failings at the custodian they say blah blah. Anyone have a handle on how many shareholders are unable to trade their shares with TDW? It occurs to me that if a significant number can't trade then there may be a false market in the shares and I've thought of writing to the SGX exchange to see if they can put some urgency into TDW who frankly have been a dead loss so far. Maybe as many TDW holders took time to complain we'd get somewhere
paulzh
29/9/2010
11:42
Eddie - I'm surprised you were unaware that TCT was not going to make a profit until 2013. This has been made abundantly clear in all the previous research notes.

TCT is highly leveraged & in a process of upgrading its properties & negotiating better rents - & developing 2 new properties. The Shanghai commercial property sector is also recovering. So the question is what will the share price look like in 18 months time when we are at March 2012? Given the then prospect of a decent divi & growing profits & increasing NAV - as well as the fruits from its new JV - the share price will probably be trading fairly close to its then NAV. Current NAV stands at SGD4.3 a share & is currently appreciating judging by the data in the S&P note. If the share price hits SGD4 by late 2012 then the share price will have appreciated by 170% over the next 18 months. Given the prospects for Shanghai - which you never mention [so I assume you are unaware of this] - the question is: what do shareholders do now? Do they sell at these prices, which I think wd be to sell at the lowest point - or do they keep the shares?

What is your view? Do you think shareholders shd sell now? My view, fwiw, is that these are too cheap & represent a great value share with lots of cap appreciation ahead & ultimately good income flows as well.

longsight
28/9/2010
21:53
Research report out on 24th September

research.sgx.com/reports/rpt_view.pl?id=6319

Good comments, but clear what problem is - losses! until 2013.

Gives comparitives for 2 listed companies (not direct Singapore listd, but HK & Singapore listed Reits with commercial and retail) - both have gross margins of 60% and net margins of 38% and 59%. That seems very high. Cannot understand how TCT cannot break even on rents. Whilst UK listed, operating losses were disguised by large forex gains giving the company an overall profit.

Will have a look at these to try to understand quite how these companies can differ so greatly in results.

eddie1980
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