Collagen Solutions Share Discussion Threads

[timbo003] 20/10/2020 15:12

>>>>Moontheloon

The RNS states within 14 days if you have already accepted

or within 14 days of receiving acceptance paperwork if you have not already accepted

[40 fathoms] 20/10/2020 15:08

Moon, No there is no possibility of a higher offer price, holding out for longer will just delay when you get paid your 6.5p per share. In terms of when you get paid if you accept the offer, they have 14 days to pay you from the date of your acceptance.

[moontheloon] 20/10/2020 13:46

When would pay out be to shareholders? If accept

[moontheloon] 20/10/2020 13:41

The squeezing out process won't result in any more money for our shares? Will it.. Could it.? Doubt it

[40 fathoms] 20/10/2020 09:00

WTT, I think you are probably right in your assessment. If you were to ask yourself would you back this board and management with fresh capital, knowing what you now know of their character, the answer would have to be no. It is a shame as I think NXC was clearly on to something when he cobbled this together. I think Rosens have bought a good business at a great price. That said I think the hugely stretched geographical supply chain that the business has cannot easily be addressed and is a big vulnerability. In the post COVID world this type of supply chain looks very old fashioned. I also think they may end up with FX issue if the US$ weakens significantly, although that of course can be hedged.

[w t tutte] 20/10/2020 07:36

I guess we get squeezed out now, but it ended up being a pretty close run thing. Just to be bloody awkward and to make sure they spend as much money as possible I am going to force them to squeeze me out. At one level I am glad it has gone through. In my view, during this process the board have shown themselves to be unequal to the task of running a public company. With no faith in their ability to grow the business, navigate the regulatory process nor to protect small shareholders, the worst outcome would probably have been to let them continue in that roll.

[nxc] 11/10/2020 13:17

I understand what you both mean by the dis-connect. It is difficult for me to explain without access to all the facts - one is left to speculate - they may have been restricted by the Takeover Panel Rules in what they can/ cannot say. I think the overuse of EBITDA as a measurement of profitability is mis-leading ( guilty as charged)and creates the dis-connect between cash and profit. I am fairly sure there would need to be a cash call if this bid fails.

[moontheloon] 09/10/2020 14:43

Aside from future potentially lucrative products I'd like to see where the positive income announcements we had pre sale have led so far current year, as profitability would equate to a similar level to offer price.

[w t tutte] 09/10/2020 14:03

With respect to the board I am happy to accept your view of their integrity but sadly integrity and competence are not one and the same. I concur with 40f, if you were still on deck we would have a good sense of where things stood, even if we did not like what we heard. Currently the board wants it both ways, we are told things look really good and we are confident in the future of the business but also that we need to sell the business. I can not square those two positions. ATB

[nxc] 09/10/2020 11:13

40Fathoms - Thank you for your kind words. As you pre-supposed I do not agree with your assessment of the Board - as individuals they are of the highest integrity and I would trust each of them with my house keys.
You have clearly highlighted an issue in how you and others have been communicated to and in that regard perception is reality - the perceived lack of communication has generated a level of dis-trust which is difficult to shake-off. As I am no longer at the Board Table I cannot offer you any insights - it may be down to the Takeover Code and advisers interpretation of the Code. Personally I would not have gone public on the sale process but perhaps their hands were tied in that regard.
I understand the angst around Chondro - perhaps I am jaded by the experience but it began to have the look of a mirage in the desert - I felt at the start that there was a clear route map to success - perhaps I and the rest of the Board were naive in failing to understand fully the shifting sands of regulatory compliance/approval - some of the output from the regulatory agencies are in my view beyond comprehension and are reflective of a deeper seated issue that exists in Government ( Uk/EU/USA/China etc)with regard to new product approvals where ultimately the net cost of compliance both slows innovation but also increases the cost to such a high level that patients and payors are not well served.
I think in conclusion Rosen's have paid a fair price and the alternative of a significant fundraising at 1p to 2p in my view did not serve my interests.

[40 fathoms] 09/10/2020 08:45

NXC I have to say I agree with both Moon and WTT with respect to the COS board. I think their performance has been woeful, almost to the point of incompetence in their handling of matters this year. Clearly they are people you know well and as a man of good standing I would not expect you to do anything other than disagree with that assessment. However, I am absolutely certain if your health had allowed you to remain as chairman we would today have a clear understanding (for better or worse) where things stood with Chondro, and if indeed 6.5p is the right price for the business why 6.5p is the right price and an understanding of how the board came to that decision. As of today we have none of these understandings. When you stepped down, the board lost all of its entrepreneurial spirit and the understanding of how to protect and treat the small investor. To my mind only Mr. Gillies comes across as being suitable for the board of a listed company. I hope your health situation is stable and I wish you well.

[moontheloon] 08/10/2020 16:42

A new owner has the wherewithal to put it through fda no big deal for them. There are partnerships in place with China and other areas. The potential has to equate with the offer - otherwise why would have we have prospective purchasers circling? I really think this is more of the principle that pi's have a variety of means and to give more fairly in the spirit of integrity rather than we want your investments at an historically un fair price and we will just reap the rewards and the fat cat gets fatter still.

[nxc] 08/10/2020 15:14

In response to your question Moon - it is beyond my understanding why a previously approved CE Marked product is still waiting for the Regulatory authorities to give it the go ahead given the available clinical evidence and the longitudinal data. A considerable amount of time,effort and cost went into trying to secure a strategic partner for Europe/USA/ROW to no avail - it was not for lack of effort on the Company's part but a consistent message from the big boys was that they wanted to see the opportunity commercially de-risked before committing any substantial investment - that scale of investment for the States alone where the device was considered a therapeutic was in excess of $30m and that was just to get it through FDA. Whilst I agree that chondro offers huge potential benefits to the patient that value has failed to translate into monetary value - a new owner may fare better.

[moontheloon] 08/10/2020 07:53

Perhaps the ex chairman could tell us why chondromimetic been completely ignored in all the waffle? Surely its presence demands acknowledgement considering that its the only long term 100% proven product worldwide of its type? Which should make 10p seem ludicrous in a year or so.. Once its took off slow cook

[moontheloon] 07/10/2020 14:22

Bump offer up to 10p get the share bonus scheme actioned. Have enough... Buy the company at a reasonable offer price for long term shareholders.

[nxc] 06/10/2020 13:45

I do not have the details to hand but I suspect they vest on acquisition and that overrides the other performance conditions - I agree that the out of money options don't count and I am not sure the process re Norgine's warrants but I think they can still get there via the option route - in any event there are not any major shareholders who have not accepted.

[40 fathoms] 06/10/2020 12:00

If they get to 90% it won't be because of employee options. The outstanding options have vesting conditions attached. For most of the grants it is based on the share price reaching 10p and also achieving sustainable positive cash flows. Those conditions have not been met. Additionally, @ 5.8 million have not met the first exercise date and an additional @ 7.9 million are out of the money.

[w t tutte] 06/10/2020 11:38

NXC, With respect to the employee options why would they not have included these already ? Cost to the employee or is it some how due to when they can be exercised ?

[w t tutte] 06/10/2020 11:33

Moon, If I have to accept 6.5p it is going to be at the very last moment. Even if they try to delist they still have to keep the offer open for weeks.

[nxc] 06/10/2020 11:09

I am fairly certain this will go unconditional in a couple of weeks time - I need to some further calculations but I think if the exercise of employee options are included they will be above 90%

[moontheloon] 06/10/2020 07:59

Accordingly, the total number of Collagen Shares in respect of which valid acceptances of the Offer have been received is 310,973,290 Collagen Shares, representing approximately 69.59 per cent. of Collagen's existing issued ordinary share capital and approximately 85.60 per cent. of the Collagen Shares to which the Offer relates.

[w t tutte] 02/10/2020 14:38

Moon, as you say hard to know what it means. Fingers crossed there are enough of us to force them to improve the offer.

[moontheloon] 30/9/2020 10:53

Sizeable Buy at 6.87... Write what you will into that it could be a play by either side of the approve / decline. I've declined all mine and family who I rec'd to buy

[w t tutte] 17/9/2020 08:18

I see Chris Brinsmead has taken up a new Chairmanship at Scapa Group, that is one share I will definitely not be buying. In my view the board of Collagen Solutions have failed to represent/protect small shareholders, I will not touch any stock that they are involved in.