Coca-cola Hbc Share Discussion Threads

[soggy] 07/10/2007 06:54

Sorry if it reads that way, I'm not suggesting they've lost anything, I'm just suggesting that they are having to pay back the whole £500m as opposed to negotiating a deal to keep using it, which others seem to think the RNS says.

The fact that the parent group, CCH Intl. is guaranteeing up to $100m of the German subsidiary simply raises the question in my mind of why they would have to provide that guarantee - is it because the German arm cannot in fact stump up the whole of their share because it's all being used by others.

It does sound to me like they've got the thing sorted, but not as hunky dory as some think. We may be back in business, but it's without that bank's $500m I think.

[sparky333] 07/10/2007 06:03

Soggy

you are making it sound like CCH have lost $500M - that is not the case they used $340m for longer term transactions ie 3 years i bet.

[soggy] 06/10/2007 15:36

As I have mentioned before, I am a complete novice at this banking/agreements stuff - I just punt on shares. But I'm not sure that this announcement says what peeps are thinking it says.

The problem was that the German arm of CCH borrowed $500m on, effectively, false pretences. The bank asked for it back. The company quickly sold off the German arm for $1 to protect the rest of the company.

According to the annual reports, the German arm was 90% of the company.

This latest announcement says that CCH Intl. will pay back $50m to the bank. That is 10% of the total debt - and seems fair as CCH Intl. only does 10% of the business. It guarantees up to $100m of the German subsidiary. Which to my mind means that the bank is still, in fact, asking for its $500m back. We have to see the next announcement, which should say how much of the remaining $450m the German arm is going to repay. If the parent group is guaranteeing up to $100m it looks like the German arm isn't going to be able to stump up their 90% of the loan, ie $450m.

But it seems to me that the bank will get its $500m back, one way or another, and the company will then either get back into business, finding new sources of dosh, (perhaps even from the same banks-but under new terms!) or it will be crippled by this, fianacially and in terms of reputation.

Given their phenomenal profitablility it would seem highly likely that they'll be back in business, one way or another. My only fear is that it might be easier and/or cheaper to do some clever sleight of hand over this selling off for $1 by which it will remain in one guy's hands and we, the faithful few, will get shafted. Hope I'm wrong in that, but I get so cynical when it comes to business finances...

Am I wrong in my reading of the RNS???

Scruts, do you read this thread any more? Can you spell it out for us numpties who don't speak legalese?

[sparky333] 06/10/2007 12:47

The more i think about this the more pleased i am

basically for $50M CCH now has $500M , which equals $2B finance available as they can 4 times the hard cash they have

and this is only one funding line

The rate CCh is growing $50 will be paid off in no time and the rest will be profit

the only loose end now is the credabilty lost with lenders for being rather sill and naughty

also i would like to see the Head of the German ops served on a platter for gross misconduct.

[moormoney] 05/10/2007 11:53

They have said they will issue a further statement on that issue---presumably now it will not take place or need to. I read it that the principal bank has agreed and so the 2nd lender to the principal bank will also have accepted the decision to lend for 3 years. lets hope share trading will come back soon.

[sparky333] 05/10/2007 08:41

I just do not like the last para, there are no reasons to split the compnay up and sell one part to Nil for $1.

They can repay the debt in 18months max so why mess about like this

[soggy] 05/10/2007 00:41

There were two banks, the first seemed to be willing to enter an agreement, is this the second one now on board, or is it just clarificatiion of the terms of the first?

[philjeans] 04/10/2007 19:52

Weird time to issue an RNS but welcome nonetheless.

Seems they have come to a sensible compromise - we await another announcement to clarify. I hope they are continuing to trade as mormal now - demand is there but they need to act in a far less cavalier manner - hopefully the Nils have learned a hard lesson; they are a public company not a family investment club.

[moormoney] 04/10/2007 19:26

I am a lot happier as well although I felt this would get sorted out eventually as the company was trading so strongly and the Nil bros have such a large stake. The financial markets show signs of sorting themselves out and sensibly the bank has agreed to wait rather than claim immediate repayment and drive the co. into liquidation. Hopefully they will relist soon with a new and more supportive Nomad--rather than the rat which resigned immediately!!
I expect the price will take a knock but maybe Erin Nil will release some more of his holding to improve liquidity---then the bounce back can begin. good luck other holders.

[sparky333] 04/10/2007 18:48

I think the $50M is basically interest over the 3years - they still want there $500M back

TBH i do not see why the compnay should be broken up now and i have a feek it isnt and they have basically been given $500M to play with for 3 years and they can easily pay back the $50M ( £25M pounds )

and taking in account with $500M they can trade $2B and doesnt include other funding lines

so i am alot happier now

[soggy] 04/10/2007 18:08

Anyone know what the upshot of the announcement today will be? Where did the sum of $50m come from, it was $500m the bank wanted back? Or is that just CCH (parent company)'s share of the debt?

Light required - can anyone shed it please?

[confusedcoalboy] 25/9/2007 19:46

From:
To: [e-mail]
Subject: CCH funding
Headers: Show All Headers

Hello,
When are your shares going to be available to sell, oops I mean trade again? Looking through your board room personnel, it seems that this is a highly-qualified bunch. Which makes me all the more surprised that I find myself wondering whether I might have done better myself.
Clearly, the market conditions played against you at the wrong time. My beef is why you never held the AGM; If CCH hope to plie their trade as a publicly-listed company in the future, I would suggest they start treating their stakeholders with a sliver of significance.
I should also say that if their appears to be a hint of impropriety in what you do or say in future, I'll have no qualms about taking the matter to the appropriate authorities.
Yours Sincerely,
Alan R

[sparky333] 25/9/2007 17:38

It just gets worse

i reckon i will never see my 10K again because these muppetts will never come back to the market TBH

[philbytrust] 25/9/2007 16:52

And this will mean...?


24 September
LONDON (Thomson Financial) - CCH International PLC said nominated adviser Insinger de Beaufort has resigned with immediate effect.

On Sept 19, the troubled trade finance group adjourned its annual general meeting till further notice without giving a reason.

[sparky333] 23/9/2007 18:10

How thge hell can the years profits belong to the subby ? that is criminal

[moormoney] 22/9/2007 16:50

I expect scrutable will be looking into this-maybe all is not lost. Unfortunately the co's nomad will make sure we don't get any information I'm sure.

[soggy] 22/9/2007 14:27

Isn't the problem that most of that profit for this year "belongs" to the German subsidiary, in which case, might it not go with that subsidiary when it's sold off. In other words, Eren gets the several million profit for this year + the liability of £500m for his $1. Or does all profit automatically belong to the parent company, not the subsidiary?

[sparky333] 22/9/2007 07:49

The more i read the annual results the more i am comforted that all is not lost here

1. Once german ops clear the debt to Bank 1 we get it back for $1 - you are not telling me there used there $340M for finance over 3years

2. The company had 6.8M Sterling in cash at the end of 2006 so assuming profits where huge again they have at least 8 months profits to book for 2007 say 4M min so they should have over 10M sterling in the bank

3. With 10M sterling in the bank this gives a floor to the share price say 10p discount the continuating business in South America , Australia , Russia etc

4. The issue is does what funding lines does the core Business have left at its disposal ? if nothing then we are a cash shell, if a few hundred Million then we still have a viable business going forward with the option to get Germany back in 3 years time

How do other people read this ?

[sparky333] 22/9/2007 06:22

Hmmm

still no answers on the cash in the Bank and profits for so far this year

they should stay with the core business ie the 10% left and not the German ops. So this will provide a level the share price will fall to.

[moormoney] 21/9/2007 22:05

Accrillia-I agree with your comments about trading out of trouble. CCH will no doubt be hammered if they are able to return from suspension but bank one has agreed a 3year term and negotiations are ongoing for bank 2 which supplied funds to bank one to agree the same---I can't see it's in the banks interests to bring down CCH when there appears to be no problem with CCH clients making their payments. This whole business seems to be triggered by the same mass panic affecting NRK so maybe the BOE funding will help CCH get out of trouble.
I very much agree that the directors have been wet behind the ears in their dealings and foolish to ignore many requests to release a chunk of their holdings. The business grew too fast and they've made stupid mistakes--I just hope they are taking the right actions and advice now!

[accrillia] 21/9/2007 21:01

CCH will need to be a good fit for the bank to carry it forward, which gives me hope CCH will pull off a deal for the long term funding.

Heres hoping.

[soggy] 21/9/2007 20:25

Cheers!

I've lost a fair whack too, for me, anyway. I've not subscribed to Lemmings but I have no difficulty in accepting their integrity, and their skills - and their hitherto good record.

Truth is, we all know that a huge % of AIM stocks crash and burn for one reason or another, and you can't always tell which! So, for those of us who put our money down and buy and AIM, well, I guess we all know the risks.

But who knows...maybe something will in fact be pulled from the ashes. As someone said above, the business was actually working, and working well. If the banks are anything other than malicious they will allow the business to carry on.

But if they smell blood, and get get their hands on the business and do it for themselves then I dare say they'll go for the jugular.

All we can do is wait...and wait...and wait....and lick our wounds.

[accrillia] 21/9/2007 18:45

Hi soggy, i am not having a pop at you, i was merely pointing out your quote was by no mean accurate. I am a member of lemming, i did not read the para as you did. Thankfully, i have made money on several lemming tips, but stand to lose around 35 percent of my profit on CCH. I am not saying this is lemmings fault, but my own for being gready. I was expecting bumper news with the next results, so i did not use a stop loss on CCH, so i stand to lose 25 percent profit on CCH plus 35 percent of profit gained from other investments. I guess you may think i am taking my frustration out on you, i am not. I just dont like misquotes, they have cost me money in the past.

No offence intended m8.