Clapham House Share Discussion Threads

[cisk] 03/12/2007 16:30

CPH was originally put together as a 'fund' invetsing in a number of restaurant concepts - with the view to taking the best ones forward. The Real Greek is the least successful and I guess will be sold or used as a cash cow (providing they are profitable of course).

I have never used BBC but of the friends who have, all say it's very good but the waiting time is slightly too long.

I have eaten in 3 different GBKs - found them all to be excellent - although this was some months ago. I think the point that no-one has commented on is that GBK's price point is mid market - yes more expensive than BK or McDs - but much better quality. The emphasis in the market has moved towards healthier eating with better ingredients etc - witness the shift away from BK for example.

So I don't think that the strategy is in question - CPH might actually benefit from conusmers trading down from more expensive restaurants. As for rents going up - these should be going down at the moment, not up.

However if the economy implodes then the only place to have cash is in funeral parlers (DTY) or debt collectors - they're the only people who will be busy!!!

[mitzis] 03/12/2007 16:08

Dominos being thrashed today almost halfed in the year incredible not a place to invest in at the moment wait till the dust settles next year is going to be tough.

[silverfern] 03/12/2007 16:04

Jazza: this is an excellent time for you to put your money were your mouth is. The sshares have not been this cheap in years. I posted in Sept I thought 330p was way too high and 250p was a useful entry price, but it fell through that far too quickly and now we know why. The news today should mean that for those who really agree the strategy - and I am not being sarcastic- that this is an excellent buy opportunity. I disgaree of course

[jazza] 03/12/2007 14:45

Slap,

the same "berks" who grew that dodgy concept "pizza express" :-)

Strongly disagree with the BBC comment, there is a small-ish indian chain in York, Leeds & Bradford (plus others?) called Akhbars...very impressive service & food...better than vast majority of clueless independants...they (Akhbar's management) should roll that one out nationally...although not where BBC are!

[slapdash] 03/12/2007 14:27

tiredoldbroker - yup said it all...

I have been amazed at the ratings for these restaurant chains.... given the operational leverage, massive competition and exposure to any downturn...

In my view the management here must be very poor... The Real Greek is a high overhead concept when it isn't clear if a Greek styled food chain would work... I go past one on St John's street London and it always appears empty..

Bombay Bycycle is ridiculous as a concept... how is this different to any Indian restaurant and why would you want to go to an Indian restaurant that is part of a chain... the whole point is that they are owner-managed and so have personal service and individuality...

Gourmet Burger probably says it all... why go there and pay loads when you can get the same thing at Hamburger Union... there is nothing especially wrong with it but it isn't really a posh restaurant but you pay for restaurant prices and service....

All in all this is a concept stock that must have poor managemnet and has stretched itself too thinly... the future doesn't look bright...

Slap

[crobbo] 03/12/2007 14:21

jazza, how much you holding? (roughly)

[tiredoldbroker] 03/12/2007 14:09

I think CPH has simply been buying too many of the wrong businesses. The Real Greek worked very well as a chef-led single upmarket restaurant under its founder, Theodore Kyriakou, but it is really very difficult to translate a chef-led one-off into a concept you can roll out - see the Toby Young review of the Southwark branch at or Hardens Guide at

Mind you, this has been shown by the relative failure to expand The Real Greek - it had the original site plus two Meze bars when CPH bought it in Dec 2003 and they said they'd grow it to 16 sites within 3 years; but after almost 4, I think they've only opened 3 new sites.

The Bombay Bicycle and GBK concepts have been rolled out, the latter faster than the former I think, but I couldn;t see any logic in buying a mature (possibly declining) chain like Tootsies when that deal was announced, and it looks worse now. So only a 50% success rate on concepts they could really expand. And I must say, Bombay Bicycle is primarily a cluster of relatively expensive Indian Takeaways/Delivery outlets.

With consumer expenditure likely to be constrained over the next year or more and commercial property remaining overpriced, chains like CPH don't look well placed at this stage.

[utsushi] 03/12/2007 14:08

jazza, i think the GBK brand is faltering..

[jazza] 03/12/2007 13:11

Don't know why I bother....you obviously don't eat in the same GBK as me.....

[caffe] 03/12/2007 12:55

Your right to say...simple! To say that they are quick?? Quick to take your cash!! Then forget that you existed...that is their concept in a nutshell.
Get the customer to serve themselves....

[caffe] 03/12/2007 12:42

No queues, can't be a busy unit then... no wonder they are talking about not meeting forecasts.

[jazza] 03/12/2007 12:36

Re: "Queueing".

When we entered we picked a table, someone came over and asked us what drinks we wanted....they suggested we pick the food we wanted and go to the order point to order.

The drinks came just before the meal, the queue consisted of errr....me!

The GBK units are not that big and taking an order is a quick process...so there weren't any queues....I'm as comfortable with standing up to say what I want as I am with waving my hands to try and catch a waiter's eye before telling them what I want!!!

[caffe] 03/12/2007 12:20

Jazza:

I see what you are saying, but if I am paying minimum £15 a head for a burger and chips I shouldn't have to queue in the 1st place. Your York experience is very different to my recent visits. I have posted my comments to CPH website and did not even get a reply!

With any roll out consistency is key to its success, seems like they are already faltering in terms of their service style. Maybe I should be more demanding when I want something else off the menu.

[mitzis] 03/12/2007 11:47

jazza:


I have been there a couple of times its got the best location in Cambridge overlooking Parkers Piece with the University Arms hotel almost next door it has every thing going for it but as far as an eating experience itslousy. theres a Wetherspoons across the road the former Regal cinema which is a better experience and cheaper.
Its a brand new outlet but its not quite right.

[jazza] 03/12/2007 11:41

CAFEE,

When we ate at GBK York we just put a hand up when a waiter was delivering someone else's food and asked for a second bottle of wine and another of still water....they brought it out soon after.

The general idea is to queue to order food but they ain't so inflexible that you can't stop staff as they come past you!!!


MITZIS,

I think your comments need posting on the GBK website...sounds like Hills Road needs a shake-up....I've eaten at the GBK in York and also at the (now closed) BK in York.....there is absolutely no comparison IMHO....decor, food (quality and choice) and service infinitely better at GBK....you can't get booze at BK either so hardly an evening out!!!

[mitzis] 03/12/2007 10:36

Ihave eaten in Hills Road Cambridge and believe me the cooking is not much better than BugirKings thats my experience and that the staff all Polish sit around all day eating burgers and drinking laughing at the customers in Polish.. at least BurgirKing are what you pay for.

[caffe] 03/12/2007 10:08

I live near a Tootsie's and a GBK both good , however I think the GBK model is flawed. No table service means that if you want additional drink or food you have to queue again!! I am a bit surprised they stuck with this and am sure they are missing a trick in upselling , also no great deserts either. Tootsie's has the table service but the concept is a little old similar to Hard Rock .

[pugugly] 03/12/2007 10:05

Profit to market cap is (imo & dyor) ridiculous. p/e far too high for a restaurant chain loaded with debt in a tightening financial climate. Fall today is probably not overdone. Given the risk adverse climate -- give me your best guess..

[bugs22] 03/12/2007 09:53

Long term the storey is still good and it is prudent of management to slow down expansion as we are now in the early stages of a down cycle in the commercial property market as they will be able to dictate terms more in the coming 12-18 months re rent etc. Anyone been to a refurbed Tootsie recently, never been to one myself, believe its family orientated and fairly standard fare of chicken, burgers, salads etc?, also any feed back on the Real Greek brand, saw the one in Putney which looked ok from the outside and fairly busy for an early evening but what is the standard of food etc like?

[iandippie] 03/12/2007 09:33

sensible debate is great. but when someone starts comparing a GBK burger to a BK burger, they really aren't that sensible are they. If I went out with wife or a mate for a bite to eat one evening as said let's go to a GBK, they'd probably say fine. But "Let's go to Burger King 2nite..."????

get real. Or perhaps there really are saddo's that enjoy an evening at Burger King!!

[badtime] 03/12/2007 09:30

Totally agree on tht one jazz...bk..yuk! no mtr wot price u pay

[jazza] 03/12/2007 09:14

mitzis,

Why not go the whole hog and say "10p by friday for this pile of poo!" :-)


A guy who I work with used to manage a Mc'Donald's...says they use to have competitions...who could eat the most 99p burgers in one go...he could down 6 of them he tells me....why?....'cos there's nothing too them..same with BK.

A 'proper' BK burger is more like £4 and it still tastes awful....the comparison is a false one IMHO.

J.

[mitzis] 03/12/2007 08:46

The problem is the cost of materials is rising fast with bread cheese and milk rising faster than any time since the 70's Domino's said the same recently.. if you can charge 550p for a burger thats great but go to burger king and get one for 99p.