Cineworld Share Discussion Threads

[careful] 05/9/2021 16:30

I may have a punt here tomorrow, always wanted to own a share of a £8bn debt.

Thank goodness for the limited liability protection of company law.

Just imagine if Cine went bust owing £8bn and there was a knock on your door.
As an owner shareholder you should be made to pay up, it is your companies debt.
We would all have to sell our houses.

That would make mr 300,000 shares think twice.

I knew a friend who bought a hotel for almost nothing.
He could not believe his luck.
Unfortunately it had liabilities that suck him he went bankrupt.
He bought the asset, he owned the liabilities.

Remember BMW selling Austin Rover for -£400M.
yes minus £400m.
Some companies are worth less than zero.

[careful] 05/9/2021 16:29

The modern investor who dabbles in cine or bitcoin is not really an investor, he is merely a punter.
more like poker, a zero sum game winners=losers.

I did it myself this summer.
Just for fun.
All the gloom about covid sent cine, saga and tug tumbling.

I had a punt on all three.
Dumped the lot 2 days later and made a few hundred quid.

'when the fun stops stop'.
We are getting to the stage where the health of a company and its profits no longer matter.
Why not just ride the curve, do we need the excuse of a company or asset anymore, just give each 'thing' a number then ramp it up to get the buying going.
That is how bitcoin works, goes up and down and it is worth nothing.

Lots of money to be made = exactly the money to be lost.

[careful] 05/9/2021 16:19

Gross gearing less intangibles 351%.
Negative net assets after intangibles too huge to quote.

I am so old fashioned.
These things used to matter.
Balance sheets do not matter anymore.

but there could be a huge turnover if things get back to normal, and debt is cheap, although cine debt is massive.

Not for the faint hearted, he who bought 300,000 must have nerves of steel.
A hero if he wins.

If Covid gets worse and enough people get nervous and stay away, cine could be in trouble by the spring.

[john09] 05/9/2021 16:07

But one things for sure. Some people arent going to be able resist going to watch James Bond, Spider-Man and Top Gun…

[john09] 05/9/2021 16:05

Cinemas are definitely autumn and winter stocks

[ashleyjv] 05/9/2021 16:01

I miss judged my purchase because they dived as soon as I bought (@95p) I'm not worried, I think they will come round and before Xmas

[john09] 05/9/2021 15:50

And your interest in Cineworld is what exactly?

I bought at 60p in August x300,000. Up £21k in a month . No luck required 👍

Presumably you’re here because you see value. Because the time to short was in April at 125p

[john09] 05/9/2021 14:52

Trading is trading

I dont care why the price inflates. You’re wrong that its bought by “US newbie investors” its being bought by a worldwide reddit following.

1. How long before they want to trade 24.7 and pick UK equivalents? The obvious read across to AMC is apparent to me

2. How long before CINE list in the US?

[john09] 04/9/2021 23:26

I hope he’s actually shorting and not just trying to talk it down to get in 10p cheaper for the last 12 months whilst missing all the various rises like a massive loser .

I see the latter time and time again 😴🤣

[1happyinvestor] 04/9/2021 23:24

LTH, Already survived a year past when you were talking of their imminent demise eh ;-)
Covenant waivers agreed again and clearly lenders happy to work in cooperation with the business :-)

[lthtrust] 04/9/2021 22:50

Cineworld 2020 Loss after tax $2,651.5 Million, Cineworld adjusted loss after tax for the first 6 months of 2021 $581.8 Million.
Cineword Equity attributable to equity holders of the Group ($276.6) Million, that is Minus $276.6 Million according to the 2021 interim results.

[john09] 04/9/2021 22:18

% of cineworld screens that are located in the USA 74%

[john09] 04/9/2021 22:16

US only list of biggest cinemas by screen

1. AMC 8,043 screens
2. Regal 7,178 screens
3. Cinemark 4,630 screens

[john09] 04/9/2021 22:07

AMC market cap $23 billion
Cineworld £900 million

You’re welcome

[john09] 04/9/2021 22:07

List of biggest cinema chains in the world

# Chain HQ Screens Sites

1 AMC. United States 11,041 1,004
2 Cineworld United Kingdom 9,500 793
3 Cinemark United States 5,957 533
4 Cinépolis Mexico 5,251 335
5 CGV South Korea 3,459 463
6 Cinemex Mexico 2,861 332
7 VUE United Kingdom 1,989 228
8 Cineplex. Canada 1,676 164
9 Wanda. China 1,657 187

[lthtrust] 04/9/2021 21:40

JakNife, I could not have put it better myself. Do not forget that Cineworld borrowed another $200 Million in July 2021, we also have the Cineplex judgement to look forward to. Cineworld have enough cash in the bank to service their debt's and liabilities for the time being, but they cannot keep burning cash forever.

[1happyinvestor] 04/9/2021 00:21

That wasn't my question LTH.
How much was paid out total in each of those years?
With no dividend, could those sums have been used to reduce debt for example?
Imagine the company that has made several cost reductions now and not paying a dividend. Might they pay down some of their debt if/when attendance levels warrant ;-)

[lthtrust] 03/9/2021 21:26

The special dividend in 2019 was paid from the proceeds of assets sold. Cineworld has huge amounts of debt and lease liabilties as a result of it's operating model. From the 2019 annual report "In line with the Group’s operating model
(in terms of which we lease and not
own almost all of our cinemas) and our
long-term strategy of crystallising value
for shareholders, during the year the
Group completed two sale and leaseback
transactions for a total of $556.3m,
relating to 35 US-based sites. The Board
utilised half of the proceeds to reduce
gross debt and the other half to reward
shareholders by way of a one-off special
dividend of 20.27c per share."

[1happyinvestor] 03/9/2021 18:34

What was the respective dividends in years 2018 and 2019 LTH? ;-)