Chesnara Share Discussion Threads

[ganthorpe] 15/12/2016 09:07

Can't find any info about the basis of allocating excess shares anywhere. Dealings started today but without info on how many shares to be allocated can't deal or know how much cash to come back.
Looks like we may get about 5% of excess shares applied for at a rough guess.
Or have I missed something?

[velod] 14/12/2016 22:12

Well fingers crossed for tomorrow, Thursday - for all those applying for additional allocations. The more they allow the less work I personally have to do. But doubt they put out a warning on scaling back only to dole out say 75% of investors additional allocation etc., Am expecting a pittance, then if it isn't, I can be upbeat if they go and surprise one and all.

. . . PS. My broker had already whipped the full amount in cash out of my account which made me think "I'm in! I've got the lot!" But it's only a precautionary just-in-case measure.

[redips2] 14/12/2016 15:21

All good here too jon..... X

[alter ego] 14/12/2016 11:55

or me. keep up your very informative posts jonwig

[solarno lopez] 14/12/2016 11:25

not me jonwig

[velod] 14/12/2016 11:20

Not at all jonwig. You made a well balanced and informative post. Nothing to disagree with on yours either Chairman. All good stuff.

[jonwig] 14/12/2016 11:16

Thanks Chairman - with the silence I assumed everybody had filtered me.

[chairman20] 14/12/2016 11:07

thanks jonwig for picking it apart

It is pointless in any market arguing
against anyone else's strategy but
for my own I'll make two points:

1. CSN is not a credible candidate for a
trading strategy - market too thin, prices
too narrow. Buy it if you want to buy
the company.

2. CSN is a small speciality niche player,
hard for investors to second guess the
strategy. So buy it if you back the
management on track record of delivering
for shareholders - if not why bother?

[jonwig] 14/12/2016 06:51

OK, I'll make myself unpopular.

There's a limit (usually 15%) to the number of new shares a company can issue non-preemptively. Had CSN wanted to raise only a bit less, there would have been no open offer and small holders wouldn't have had a look in. The fact that they wanted to raise not much more explains the small percentage allocation.

Second, an open offer to all holders is far more costly than an institution only one, as it involves the production of a prospectus and a great deal of admin work. With institution-only the job can be done in a morning with a few phone calls at negligible cost to the company.

Third, the 'city boys' are share funds and pension funds, not individuals. You can be certain that the placing was made to these and not to 'city slickers'. If they sell to make a quick profit, the share price will fall, liquidity will improve and small shareholders can add to their holding.

Last, why the fundraising at 300p? The fact that it's now over 330p clouds the judgment. It was 309p at the time of the offer, it's dropped twice to 300p in November and was below 300p up to August. And the placees were taking a risk by promising to take the shares in a volatile market and a volatile share price. The reward is for the risk.

By the way, this was not a rights issue.

[dozey3] 14/12/2016 06:16

My first dabble in CSN was at 110p in September 2008 so I guess I qualify as a long-term holder, and will be hanging on to any new shares allocated. Funds to pay for them are stuck in limbo until I know the number though, which is annoying.

[dozey3] 14/12/2016 05:59

That's certainly a valid velod point of view. What happens following an acquisition Ann issue of shares deepends crucially on the shrewdness of the acquisition. RPC is an example of a company consistently getting it right, and in fairness CSN have done OK so far. My feeling is that the expanded company will be able to maintain the generous dividend, and seems likely to attract more income seeking institutions. Thus those making a quick exit may find a ready market and steady or rising share price

[velod] 14/12/2016 00:22

Just a late night flying visit. I totally concur with Joan of Arc. Joan Of what? LOL! (I should laugh with my moniker). After the last full on rights issue I was involved with: another Co. , (and all the others over the years for as long as I can remember) and being taken to the cleaners on each and every single one - I swore not again - and then, Never again! Soon as it was confirmed my additional shares in CSN were logged and would remain in play should I subsequently sell I sold my entire holding immediately for a very small profit (but was more keen just to get my full value back) much about where the share price lies tonight. Don't be fooled by the apparantly nice rise in response to the issue. It's all to rope-a-dope you. I sold because I firmly believe the city wide boys will pickpocket CSN then mug them and make a quick profit killing in the market singing as they go: Thank you very much for the free money suckers! They will say as they slide out the back door where I will be waiting to pick up my stock again but much less than I originally paid for them. The scale back didn't sound like enough to replace my selling up. Should I have this completely wrong I have until spring (next divi payment) to get back in the saddle as best as I can. But I'm betting on those city wide boys staying true to character and send the share price plummeting where as I've said, I will be waiting with me big butterfly net. Repeat I am never, ever again staying the course for any future rights issues no matter what the company! Now the guessing game begins How low do you think it will driven down to by these wasters? I'm looking for the same as the issue - 300p! Or less!!! Could take a couple of months but we'll see. Would have stood more chance of my plan working had it been a bona fida full on rights issue ratherr than this watered down version. But the worm has turned - I'm playing them!!! PS: Don't be surprised to see the share price rise significantly from here. That's to make you relax even top up at a higher price. It'll behave just like all the other rights issue. The city boys Christmas bonus awaits them.

[dozey3] 13/12/2016 11:32

Me neither.

[joan of arc] 13/12/2016 11:23

It was always obvious that these would be well oversubscribed by existing shareholders. It is typical of these city boys that they gave a totally unwarranted amount of the company of our company away to their cronies via the firm placing who will then sell them off for a handsome profit having taken virtually zero risk with their "investment".

I for one am not well pleased.

[dozey3] 13/12/2016 09:38

Shame they couldn't have done the arithmetic and told us what percentage of one's excess application will be successful. Too much to expect I suppose.

[speedsgh] 13/12/2016 08:29

Results of Placing and Open Offer -

On 24 November 2016, Chesnara announced details of a Firm Placing and Placing and Open Offer to raise gross proceeds of approximately £70 million through the issue of, in aggregate, 23,333,334 New Ordinary Shares at a price of 300 pence per New Ordinary Share, with 18,668,994 New Ordinary Shares to be issued through the Firm Placing and 4,664,340 New Ordinary Shares to be issued through the Placing and Open Offer.

The Open Offer closed for acceptances at 11 a.m. on 12 December 2016. Chesnara is pleased to announce that it has received valid acceptances under the Open Offer, including acceptances under the Excess Application Facility, in respect of 12,465,882 Open Offer Shares from Qualifying Shareholders. This represents approximately 267 per cent. of the Open Offer Shares. Qualifying Shareholders who have validly applied for Open Offer Shares will receive their full application up to their Basic Open Offer Entitlement. Applications under the Excess Open Offer Entitlements Facility will be scaled back in accordance with the terms of the Open Offer.

The Firm Placing and Placing and Open Offer remains conditional, inter alia, upon the Resolutions being passed at the General Meeting to be held at 11 a.m. on 13 December 2016. It is expected that Admission will become effective and that dealings in the New Ordinary Shares will commence at 8 a.m. on 15 December 2016 on the main market of the London Stock Exchange. Chesnara expects to announce the results of the General Meeting as soon as practicable on 13 December 2016 after the meeting concludes.

[speedsgh] 12/12/2016 11:56

We'll find out Results of Placing and Open Offer tomorrow. Hoping they haven't had to wield the knife too much to scale back Excess Applications.

[nobbyx] 01/12/2016 18:29

Rest assured Dozey3. It doesn't look as if the board wish for the trouble and expense of making a multitude of tiny allocations. They've given themselves the power, if they think fit to exercise it, to pass all the Excess shares in one package to an single holder or small number of holders of their choice.

The documentation makes clear:

"Allocations in respect of such excess applications will be scaled down pro rata to the number of Excess Shares applied for under this Excess Application Facility by Qualifying Shareholders or allocated in such manner as the Board may, in its absolute discretion, determine and no assurances can be given that the applications by Qualifying Shareholders will be met in full, in part or at all."

Of the 23.33 million new shares being issued 18.67 million will be placed leaving only 4.66 million available for the Open Offer. (There are 126.40 million shares on issue at present. 4.66 is 3.69% of 126.4 - Hence only 3.69 Open Offer shares available for every 100 held). Likely most of the 4.66 million Open Offer Shares will be taken up leaving very few shares to be allocated under the 'Excess' terms.

[speedsgh] 30/11/2016 23:07

jonwig - No probs re interview link. Nice to see that they get the importance of the dividend to their shareholders. Have held CSN for long time & is one of my largest holdings. Currently giving me 9.5% return on cost. Wish all my holdings were like that!To be fair to CSN, info on limit to Excess Application Facility of Open Offer was also included in last weeks rns (under Structure of Issue), although admittedly not prominent. I find that type of info rarely is. Have applied for excess but expect it to be greatly scaled back.

[dozey3] 30/11/2016 22:52

It seems a no brainer to apply for as many extra shares as you can afford within the double-your-holding limit. However that means a likelihood of huge oversubscription for very few residual shares, which gives CSN an administrative nightmare doling out penny numbers of shares. It may be a shrewd deal they got themselves, but this open offer is poorly structured IMO.

[jonwig] 30/11/2016 20:26

Yes, but you don't find it until p.52 of the prospectus!

Qualifying Shareholders are also being given the opportunity, provided they take up their Open Offer Entitlements in full, to apply for Excess Shares through the Excess Application Facility up to a maximum number of Excess Shares equal to two times the
number of Existing Ordinary Shares...

It should have been given greater prominence.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

speedsgh - thanks for the video link.

[blueliner] 30/11/2016 20:04

Hargreaves in an Open Offer update today state that it has come to their attention that there is an excess application limit of twice the number of Ord shares held in your account on 23.11.16.
Wasn't thinking of going for that many anyway so no bother.

[speedsgh] 29/11/2016 13:16

ProactiveInvestors Stocktube video interview with John Deane, CEO...

Chesnara now has 'real scale' in Netherlands says CEO Deane -

Chesnara’s (LON:CSN) deal to buy Legal & General’s Dutch business added 7% to its market value as investors reckoned it was a canny bit of business. John Deane, chief executive, explains that not only does it give it real scale in the Netherlands, it makes it a credible buyer for other assets that may become available in the country. Chesnara’s aim is to be the least troublesome share in an investor’s portfolio, he adds, and deals like this make that ambition easier to achieve. At €160mln, the business is being bought at a large discount to its cash generation potential. It also means Chesnara now has close to £7bn of assets under management and is a sizeable player in all three of its core markets.

[jonwig] 28/11/2016 11:17

Yes, TDD does. I've rather optimistically asked for a further thousand. Maybe I'll get a few, as there are always people who ignore these things.

[deadly] 28/11/2016 10:57

Some stockbrokers e.g. Interactive Brokers, allow you to take part in the excess offer, others not it seems.